Biotest

Why am I Gaining Weight on V-Diet?


#1

I am 9 days in, have followed all of the guidance with HSMs, have completed all WOs in their entirety, have done close to an hour of NEPA daily, and weigh exactly the same this’ll morning as I did on day 1. Why am I not losing weight?

Note - Weights are all done the morning of, the calorie counts are where I am at the end of the day. Example: Day one I started the diet at 187.6, I used all prescribed supplements, strength workout, and did 1 hour NEPA in a fat burning HR zone (All WOs and NEPA calorie expenditure is tracked using a polar H7 HRM) and at the end of the day had a 326 calorie deficit.

Monday, Day 1 - 187.6, 326 cal under expenditure
Tuesday, Day 2 - 187.6, 40 cal under
Wednesday, Day 3 - 187.8 - 819 cal under
At this point I have cut shakes to one scoop at night and gone for the lowest cal count recommended with the HSM*
Thursday, Day 4 - 186.8, 506 cal under
Friday, Day 5 - 185.4, 743 cal under
Saturday, Day 6 - 186.0, 212 cal over
Sunday, Day 7 - 188.4, 987 cal under
Monday, Day 8 - 187.8, 922 cal under
Cut Plazma to 1.5 servings as guide says 1-2/WO
Tuesday, Day 9 - 187.6

I use my fitness pal to track all calories in/out. I set the daily calories to 1500 (880 for shakes, 620 for HSM) which is already over 1000 cal below what I need to maintain my current weight. That means I am close to 2000 cal deficits some days. Looking at it by day, I have created a caloric deficit 8/9 days, completed all prescribed WOs, have cut every possible supplement the diet guide gives permission to (night shake, close to lowest allowed Plazma), and I am losing no weight.

Prior to starting this diet I was simply completing a caloric deficit diet in a similar calorie range and had lost 14.2 lbs in the first 3 weeks of the year. This diet, has prettymuch roadblocked all progress.

My info
M - 39
Staring weight - 187.6 lbs
Height - 69”
Neck - 15.5”
Waist at the naval - 39”
Calculated BF% using waist and neck - 26%

I take the BF% with a grain of salt, it is a BMI measurement used by the military

What is going in here?
Am I missing something about creating a caloric deficit?
Am I retaining water?
Have I gained pounds of muscle in a week (I don’t think that is possible)?


#2

Thanks for posting so much detail. I don’t work for Biotest, but have done V-Diet before, competed as a natural bodybuilder, coach clients in training and nutrition and can offer you some advice, and ask some questions to further inspect what might be going on here.

To me, that looks like 2 pounds under what your first weight was, no?

You’re only 9 days in. If you were 4 weeks in and scale weight hasn’t changed, maybe then there would be some cause for questioning or concern. However, if everything is super accurate, and your HSM calories are what you think they are (assuming you’re weighing all your food on a scale, factoring in cooking oil cals, etc.?), you lost 2 pounds. Daily fluctuations are normal, and if this diet is drastically different from what you’ve been doing then your body will likely have a period before the scale starts moving more consistently.

My second year of contest prepping, I was 2 weeks into my prep and hadn’t lost any scale weight, but I knew for sure I was in a solid deficit and was doing everything right. I kept the faith, and didn’t make any adjustments. A few days later the scale started moving and I was able to lose another 5 pounds over the next 3 weeks before making adjustments.

You’re only 9 days in. The V-Diet is a great plan, and if your numbers are accurate, you’re losing fat. To confirm, you are weighing your food for your HSM?

Weighing in daily can mess with your head. I always use my lowest weight of the week, knowing that anything above that is just water or poop.

Losing 14.2lbs in 3 weeks is a hell of a lot. A property executed diet cannot block progress, only you can. If you’re sure you’re following it properly, don’t sweat it, it’s only been 9 days, and according to your scale, you lost 2lbs.

This doesn’t make sense to me. If your TDEE is 2,500, and you eat 1,500, that’s a 1000 cal deficit.

You’ve got some pretty wild fluctuations in your calculated deficit, from 987 cals to 40 cals to 212 cals. How is that happening?

What are you doing for your NEPA?


#3

Let me try and hit your main points answer all of your questions.

Yes, if you look at lowest weights, I was down 2lbs at 185.4.

Yes, I weigh all of my food on a digital scale, though I do use some pre-measured food for convenience (individual packaged serving rice, tuna in water, etc). My HSM is basically brown rice w/quinoa and flax, chicken or tuna, lots of broccoli, and some hot sauce.

The fluctuations in my calories are all from NEPA and cutting calories from the diet. That’s why you will see as the diet continues, the deficit increases and I attempt to capture why (cutting 1 scoop at night is 110cal, cutting half a serving of Plazma is 110cal I believe). Additionally I would up the NEPA which is walking on a treadmill at an incline, or slowly riding a spin bike while watching TV, and I have upped that to 1-1.5 hours daily. HR stays in a fat burning zone for me during NEPA.

Also, yes, 14.2 lbs is excessive. I will admit that 6lbs or so was from the holidays so it came off quick. The rest has remained off as I have been under 190 for over 2 weeks now.

Hopefully that answers your questions.


#4

As for the TDEE deficit, that’s at 1500, cutting a shake and eating the smallest meal is 1170, then you add 400 plus cal burned on NEPA daily and I’m closer to 1700-1800 deficit.


#5

What were these measurements at the beginning? And how have the rest of the suggested measurements (upper arms, chest, waist, legs, calves, total inches) changed?

How are your clothes fitting? How do you look? Scale weight is only one way to track progress, and it’s a fickle one, which is why the V-Diet talks about the importance of tracking multiple measurements.

You’ve turned NEPA (non-exercise physical activity) into exercise. That’s also a problem, impacting recovery and causing an excessive calorie deficit (which, counter-intuitively, can make the body not want to lose any fat).

Daily calories should be different depending on training or non-training days.

So, yeah, I’m gonna lean towards you panicking (kinda-sorta understandable as an instinct) and you’ve been doing too much exercise on too few calories. You drastically reduced the calories after three days on the plan. And then cut them down again a few days later by reducing the Plazma.

Get back to the plan as it was designed and let it work. 4 2-scoop shakes plus an HSM on non-training days; 4 2-scoop shakes, Plazma, and an HSM on training days. And ease way back on on the NEPA, remembering the N.E. part of it.

In fairness, the diet didn’t have a chance to roadblock anything because you really didn’t give it a fair shot before adjusting it to make it “work better”.


#6

I agree, I can tell you from personal experience that exercising more and eating less will not always make you lost weight. If you’re at 1180 calories net for the day, with all that cardio plus weights, your body will be fighting you every step of the way. I’ve had a couple experiences getting down to every low body fat, then in an effort to keep going, cutting more cals and adding more cardio, and it got dangerous. Adding more food actually helped me speed up fat loss and keep progressing. Try sticking to the diet exactly as prescribed.


#7

Chris,

I am confused about the NEPA portion as I am following that to a T from the digital booklet (30-60 min walking at a 4 mph pace), technically I am going slower (16:42 mile pace at a slight incline), and when I use the bike I am hitting a very similar HR as the walking (probably within 5 bpm average and still well below an exercise/performing fitness HR).

As for the calories, I am only making the adjustments also described in the book (1 scoop at night, 1-2 servings of Plazma on WO days, 400-700 cal HSM), so again, I am following the diet to a “T”, so if that is “freaking out” the booklet may want to go more in depth.

Lastly, my expectations for seeing significant weight loss are based on the VDiet web page, not some fairy tale reality. All of the related photos and testimonials all stess significant fat and weight loss. If that isn’t the standard outcome, perhaps there should be some verying testimonials.

Part of the reason I chose this diet was to reach a specific weight, and based on all the info available from the biotest page, that expectation is acceptable.

So to clarify, what HR% should I be shooting for on NEPA?

Yes, I feel a bit better in my clothes, but chose this diet based on its weight and fat loss testimonials (which are the only ones available). It seems that they may not necessarily be the case on average.

You recommend that I increase calorie intake even though I am following all diet guidelines and not losing weight?

If I come across as complaining, it is because I do not think this diets outcomes are in line with the expectations built on the website.


#8

I’ll let Chris address your questions to him, however, I think your statement above is a little bit ludicrous as you’ve been on the diet for 9 days. As the V-Diet is longer than 9 days, I don’t think it’s fair to make that statement.

There was a guy in the gym one time who said to me, “hey man, I am totally stuck. I’ve been dieting super hard, cardio, tracking, everything, and I’m not leaning out the way I thought I would.” When I asked him how long he’s been going at it, he said “11 days.” I laughed, and continued to explain that it takes time. You can’t expect miracles in 9 days.

There is no diet that will cause dramatic changes in appearance in 9 days, unless you’re already at like 6% body fat. Again, you lost 2lbs in 9 days, pretty on point IMO.


#9

Rob,

I am totally understanding what you are saying. My argument isn’t that the diet doesn’t work for body composition, 9 days in would be too soon to make that call. My argument is that it doesn’t work as advertised. Let’s look at one of their main page testimonials mathematically.

Dan John is one of their main page testimonials. He lost 23 lbs in 4 weeks, then several weeks later competed in a 105 kg (231 lbs)division. Let’s just assume with that info, that Dan Johns started the diet at 250lbs.

So how much would Dan be consuming at the highest end of the spectrum? Here is a non-workout day below.

At 250 lbs, eating max allowed intake Dan would get 6.32 cal/lb of starting mass.
1580cal/250lb = 6.32 cal/lb

Doing this, Dan lost 23 lbs and 5” from his waist. 23lb = roughly 9% of starting mass.

Now, let’s assume I shoot for similar goals, which I have, I would eat 1200 cal/day, which is the low end (7 scoops of shake and a small SHM) which I am.

6.32cal/lb x 190lb = 1200 cal which is 7 scoops of shake and 430 cal meal.

If I am following the same numbers as Dan John I could assume I should lose 14-18lbs, or 3.5-4.5 lbs/week. And that’s just me taking their advertising at face value.

So I bring up my concerns here on the forum…

Red Flag 1 - I am currently eating calorically identically to their main testimonial, yet Chris has stated that I am doing the wrong thing by eating too few calories and accused of panicking. I am 100% inline with the guidelines of the diet. That’s odd.

Red Flag 2 - I am following the NEPA to a “T”, going even slower than the recommended 4 miles/hour, yet was accused of “turning it into exercise”. How? I’m following the guidance to the numbers prescribed.

I am following meal plans, WOs, and NEPA, exactly as outlined and following similar cal/lb ratios to their testimonial standouts, but am told “you’ve been doing too much exercise on too few calories” when I question my results. That makes no sense and is mildly infuriating. It sounds like a cop out. I

If I were here looking for a miracle diet I would be a fool. If I expect their diet to work as advertised, am I a fool? It sounds like they are selling wolf tickets to weight loss. Certainly a high protein, low fat, low carb diet will help build lean mass, but where is the weight loss they harp on?

What would you say is a fair number of lbs do expect to lose on this diet in 4 weeks based on their advertisements and testimonials?

“Whether your goal is to lose that last 15 pounds of fat and finally see your abs, kick-start a healthier lifestyle”


#10

Just a reminder that I do not work for Biotest, just a long time user of their supplements, and have completed the V-Diet a couple of times, and am providing insight based on my experience.

@ssmith8180, I say this in the most non-confrontational or aggressive way, so please keep that in mind, but I think if you put the same effort into getting shredded as you do finding ways to place blame on everything and everyone but yourself, you’d have a 6 pack already and wouldn’t have to worry about any of this.

Regardless of your “argument,” how can you possibly say after doing a 9 day diet it doesn’t work as advertised?

Weight loss is not a perfect linear slide down the scale, I feel like you expect to lose a consistent amount of weight each day, and by your calculations you should be “x” weight today based on Dan John’s blah blah blah. As someone who has dieted down to very low single digit body fat multiple times, I can tell you with great confidence, it doesn’t work that way. I’ve had times when I haven’t changed a thing about my diet or training, scale weight doesn’t budge for 2 weeks, then in week 3 I lose 3.5 pounds. How does that work? I don’t know, I just know our bodies are not machines and you can’t expect it to react like one.

There’s about 3,500 cals in a pound of fat, right? So, to lose 4lbs a week, you’d need a roughly 14,000 calorie weekly deficit, which would probably land you in rough waters.

I think you’re a fool if you take a 9 day sample period and accuse a 4 week diet of not working, and write a dissertation about it. If you followed the diet for 8 weeks and lost 0 scale weight, you’d have more data to pull from.

That is HIGHLY individualized, based on so many factors, so there’s no way for me to say how many pounds you should be losing over 4 weeks. Based on the V-Diet guidelines, I think 2lbs a week is reasonable for most folks if they’ve got enough fat to lose.

Let’s think about this from a more practical perspective. You know, for sure, that you’re in a significant caloric deficit each day, yes? You know, for sure, you’re training with weight and getting your cardio in, yes? So, scientifically, it would be impossible for you not to be losing fat, unless you’ve got some crazy medical condition you’re not aware of. You are absolutely holding less fat than when you started. There are so many factors that go into what your scale says your weight is, and if that’s the only thing you’re basing your results on, after 9 days, then you need to realize the scale is one factor, but not the factor. Give it more time and follow the plan.


#11

And my point is there was no reason to make those adjustments because you were on the diet for less than 80 hours before you started changing things.

There’s no specific target heart rate, because it’s not a full-fledged exercise session. Just like not all training programs need to be based off a percent of 1RM.

So, in less than two weeks, there’s a tangible real world difference in your physique. That, really, should be the conversation ender that puts your mind at ease.

You never replied back about how the rest of your measurements have changed. The plan suggests tracking 10 different areas, you’ve mentioned two (not sure if those two were the starting measurements or the current). Any visible difference between your before pics and your most recent progress pics?

Nope. The suggestion is: “For your NEPA walk, shoot for around 4 mph. For most of us, that means walking faster than your normal pace. It’s not “speed walking,” just moving faster than normal.”

You’re clung to the “4mph”, not the “around 4mph […] just moving faster than normal.” Also, what incline setting are you using? Below 3.0-ish is plenty.

The outcomes provided are what happens when the Velocity Diet is followed for 28 days, which the manual states:

Not odd at all, because you’re not. That’s fact.

This is ridiculously unfair of you to say because you have no idea how it works since you’re your not done with it and you modified it almost immediately.

I’m gonna repeat myself for what you should do next: Get back to the plan as it was designed and let it work. 4 2-scoop shakes plus an HSM on non-training days; 4 2-scoop shakes, Plazma, and an HSM on training days. And ease way back on on the NEPA, remembering the N.E. part of it.

Follow that for 28 days.


#12

Rob,

Thanks for the response.

I agree, and stated, 9 days is too short to judge the overall program. My dissertation was aimed more at the response I received from Chris stating that I was not following the diet. On the contrary, I am following it to a T. I am well within the supplement guidelines and caloric guildlines (and I used their own testimonial and some basic math to verify that).

So how am I not following the diet as the forum moderator implied? Why is the immediate response to blame me for doing the wrong thing when I am clearly following the guidelines, and not delve into a more detailed explanation as you have?

I have the exact same issue with response to my NEPA.

Obviously the diet is the same whether I weigh 300lbs, or 150lbs, so I think the limited info on removing Shake scoops, limiting calories, and the overall Plazma intake are the only variables dieters have to tailor the diet to them.

I think that this diet will build lean muscle mass, but I don’t think it’s the weight loss miracle thier ads and testimonials make it out to be. Specifically you say 14000 calories is dangerous. Okay, then why is the main page full of testimonials such as…

“Lost 16lbs in 4 weeks”

“Lost 23lbs and 5” in 4 weeks”

“Lost 21lbs and 5” in 28 days”

All of those would be numbers would land dieters in rough waters according to you.

Why did I purchase the products? To get under 180lbs, not to get ripped. I meet height weight requirements in the military, not aesthetic appearance standards. The diet advertises extreme weight loss, but when I come to the forums to question why that isn’t happening and am accused of not following diet recommendations, which is nonsense, and now have people saying that the expectations biotest builds up in advertisements isn’t realistic or healthy. That is unethical and immoral.

It sounds like the diet is a good program that works to build muscle mass, but it is packaged and sold as snake oil to lose weight fast.

So to rehash my beefs…

  1. I was accused of not following diet guidelines when I clearly was following them.

  2. I don’t think the advertised outcomes match reality and that is unethical in business. (We will ignore that the photos and testimonials are likely from an earlier version of the diet that is completely different from the current one).

You would have to put considerable effort into being deliberately obtuse to not recognize my concerns as legitimate.

Maybe Chris will weigh in on how I am not following guidelines. Maybe somebody from biotest will weigh in and explain why their testimonials are snake oil garbage?

We will see.


#13

Let’s make this simple.

Should I expect to see weight loss, body weight percentage wise, in line with Biotest’s testimonials and diet advertisements?


#14

I didn’t imply it, I flat-out stated it and explained how/why in my previous post.

You can lose 8 pounds by following the V-Diet properly. Should be no big problem.

For the umpteenth time, you were not. You made unnecessary changes for no valid reason and I believe you’re going too hard on the NEPA (a quick walking pace isn’t likely to keep you in a fat-burning heart rate zone for an hour).

Any advertised outcomes are pulled from V-Diet logs kept in the forum, literally reality-based.

On second thought, maybe have a cheat meal. You seem cranky.

When the V-Diet is followed as written for 28 days, yes.


#15

Ok Chris,

4 2 scoop shakes (I will ignore the specific guidance to remove a shake if you aren’t happy with fat loss), HSM, and Plazma. And this is important because at 187lbs, going lower will ruin the diet for me because I am consuming too few calories.

My friend is 300lbs and wants to know what you recommend for him.


#16

Cool. You ignored the specific guidance to follow the plan for at least one week before changing anything, and weighing in once a week instead of daily, and taking measurements/not overrelying on the scale.

Seriously dude, your attitude is pretty crappy. It doesn’t bode well for your compliance or progress, but definitely consider keeping a log to track things (another thing the plan specifically recommends).

I’d want more information like his height, general bodyfat, training experience, current diet, and goal.

The V-Diet may be overkill for what he’s looking for, and he might get better overall results holding off on the V-Diet and getting some basic training and nutrition in place for a while before diving into an intense plan like this.


#17

Chris,

I’m sorry that the Velocity Diet web page promises extreme weight loss as I have already quoted, and then doesn’t deliver anywhere close.

I’m sorry that you use testimonials from earlier variations of the diet that are entirely different and use entirely different products and calories to include 1 SHM/week, hotroxx, and surge (I believe is the name of the product). It’s entirely unethical from a business standpoint. (Feel free to explain why your testimonials focus on weight loss and waist measurements, not all those other really important measurements).

I’m sorry that you can’t explain how your diet is a one size fits all. You weigh 150 lbs, same calorie intake as a 250 Dan Johns (you know, blah blah blah Dan Johns, the front page testimonial guy).

I’m sorry that your NEPA guidance is extremely vague and that following the 4mph walk guidance is somehow wrong.

I’m sorry that I can present logically sound, mathematically factual calorie count information based on Biotest testimonials and advertisements and you just respond with nothing of substance from a logical or scientific standpoint.

Who would have thought I would find an unethically advertised, illogicallly defended diet regiment would lead consumers to a negative outlook and crappy attitude towards Biotest.

I suppose it’s my fault for weighing myself too frequently.


#18

Says a guy who did it for barely longer than a week.

Dude, plenty of people have done the V-Diet successfully. The fact that you did it for 9 days, bitched about it, and quit, shows that you will never truly be successful until you change your mindset and stop being a victim. Go on the V-Diet logs and read all of them who have had great experiences, myself included. You’ve received sound explanations and feedback, yet still complain. You’re afraid to succeed, and would rather succumb to the fear of failure and make excuses, rather than see something through, or stop bitching and just get ripped.

You should be, making these blanket statements about something you actually haven’t done.

Actually, he did, you just just to ignore it and not listen.

No, you have a crappy attitude in general, and have a negative outlook on life.

Yes, yes it is.


#19

Rob,

I didn’t quit. I am still doing the diet and did exactly as Chris recommended which is 4-2 scoop shakes, the HSM, and the Plazma.

If you don’t see any major glaring issues with somebody saying that x cal/lb is fine at 250+ weight, but somehow detrimental to success at another weight you are either slow, or deliberately being obtuse. I even did the calculations for you.

If you also fail to see the glaring issue with me following NEPA to a T, 30-60 minutes walking pace of 4mph (which I go slower), but being told I am doing it wrong because I mention “fat burning HR zone” (meaning I am wearing a HRM to be certain I do not push too hard, which according to my HRM and associated app I get one of two announcements (“you are burning fat” or “you are improving fitness”, I only ensure that I avoid the latter) then again, you are slow or being willfully ignorant.

If you don’t see issues with false testimonial being used from a wholey different version of the diet being wrong, you are again, trying to ignore it. You yourself stated that 4lbs/week or trying to lose 9% BF is 4 weeks would “put you in a dangerous place”. Every testimonial on the site describes exactly that type of weight loss.

What exactly are you focusing on when you read my posts? It clearly isn’t what I am typing in them. I get it, you are a biotest fanboy. I personally thing the diet is mareketed in an unethical manner and the forum moderator Chris is unable to sufficiently address any of my above concerns about NEPA, marketing, cal/lb intake of testimonials, etc. The experience and company are not impressive. I won’t recommend this diet or company and will let others know about my negative experience.

Pretty simple.


#20

I have addressed them, repeatedly. You literally ignore everything I say and skip every follow-up question I ask. So I’ll sum up the situation:

The V-Diet manual says to measure your neck, shoulders, chest, waist (above, at, and below navel), hips, upper arm, upper leg, and calf when you begin the plan and once a week. You did not.

The V-Diet manual says to take starting pics and progress pics once a week. You (almost definitely) did not.

The V-Diet manual plainly says “don’t put too much stock into the bathroom scale.” You let the scale determine your entire course of action.

The V-Diet manual says to weight yourself once a week and goes in-depth explaining why weighing yourself daily is a bad idea. You weighed yourself daily.

The V-Diet manual says to follow the plan for at least one week before changing anything. You changed it after three days.

The V-Diet manual says to keep a log and participate in the forum to stay on track and handle questions as they come up. You made your own decisions and waited a week and a half to get advice to fix the problems it created.

The V-Diet manual explains NEPA as “shoot for around 4 mph […] It’s not ‘speed walking,’ just moving faster than normal.“ You relied on a heart rate monitor and adjusted the speed and incline to your own routine.

The V-Diet manual explains why adding cardio isn’t necessary and can impact recovery. You added cardio.

The V-Diet manual literally says “Most people who get disappointing results on the diet, or who quit out of frustration before completing it, change the diet in some way.” You changed the plan almost immediately after starting.

I have no problem with that as long anytime you let people know your opinion, you also give them a link to this thread so they can see the whole story. I dare you.

I appreciate that you recognize the underlying cause of all of these problems was your decision to do something that the plan very clearly said not to do.