Biotest

Triple-Dose Surge?


#1

I workout first thing in the morning arriving at the gym within 30-40 minutes of waking up. I’ll generally workout six days a week for an hour and do 15 minutes of low intensity running immediately after.

My goals are to gain mass, and I’ve been following Berardi’s nutrient timing principles. I know in the past many here have had great success double-dosing Surge Recovery, but Berardi actually recommends triple-dosing for so called ectomorphs! Given that I workout first thing in the morning, I was wondering if taking three of these shakes would benefit me (1 serving 15 minutes pre-workout, 1 serving during, 1 serving immediately post-workout) or if those calories and carbs would be better served coming elsewhere in my diet, and I should stick to the standard double-dose Surge protocol (1/2 serving pre-workout, 1/2 serving during, and 1 serving post-workout)?

And as far as timing, would I take the post-workout serving after lifting and before the 15 minutes cardio, or after lifting AND cardio?

Stats: 6’3" 182 lbs (up from 145 lbs), 25 y/o, 12 % body fat, taking in 4500 kcals (35/30/35) to gain.

Thanks!

EDIT: Just realized Finibars are actually slightly cheaper per serving than Surge, would a Finibar upon waking up and the double-dose Surge protocol be superior to both the above options?


#2

I’m not sure one method using these supps is ‘superior’ but I would have a finibar about 40 minutes before you will train and have one Surge during and one after… Also if you are looking to gain maybe you could ditch the cardio after some of your lifting sessions. Gaining muscle is all about being in a calorie surplus so the more you burn the more you have to eat to get slightly above maintenance.


#3

Looks like you’ve stumbled across some older info from our archives. Instead of triple dosing Biotest’s older formulas, why don’t you simply move to the most advanced Biotest peri-workout supplement, <a href="http://www.t-nation.com/store/products/plazma"target=“new”>Plazma?

Just follow label directions and adjust as needed based on your results.


#4

[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
Looks like you’ve stumbled across some older info from our archives. Instead of triple dosing Biotest’s older formulas, why don’t you simply move to the most advanced Biotest peri-workout supplement, <a href="http://www.T-Nation.com/store/products/plazma"target=“new”>Plazma?

Just follow label directions and adjust as needed based on your results. [/quote]

Two reasons, the price disparity, and the calories Surge and/or Finibars provide toward my daily macros. That being said, do you have a more specific protocol recommendation that fits within my budget constraints?

Judging by (relatively current) posts from some of the bigger guys on here, a Finibar, whey hydrolysate and fast-carbs (Surge), or some combination thereof seems like it’s still a powerful protocol on a lower budget, if less optimal that Plazma/MAG-10.


#5

[quote]Efuchs7 wrote:
I’m not sure one method using these supps is ‘superior’ but I would have a finibar about 40 minutes before you will train and have one Surge during and one after… Also if you are looking to gain maybe you could ditch the cardio after some of your lifting sessions. Gaining muscle is all about being in a calorie surplus so the more you burn the more you have to eat to get slightly above maintenance.[/quote]

That seems the best option. I suppose it comes down to a Finibar or an extra serving of Surge.

On another note, I don’t think 15 minutes of cardio is going to hinder my gains much, at least not enough to out-weigh the positives.


#6

[quote]Ivan Fyodorovich wrote:

[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
Looks like you’ve stumbled across some older info from our archives. Instead of triple dosing Biotest’s older formulas, why don’t you simply move to the most advanced Biotest peri-workout supplement, <a href="http://www.T-Nation.com/store/products/plazma"target=“new”>Plazma?

Just follow label directions and adjust as needed based on your results. [/quote]

Two reasons, the price disparity, and the calories Surge and/or Finibars provide toward my daily macros. That being said, do you have a more specific protocol recommendation that fits within my budget constraints?

Judging by (relatively current) posts from some of the bigger guys on here, a Finibar, whey hydrolysate and fast-carbs (Surge), or some combination thereof seems like it’s still a powerful protocol on a lower budget, if less optimal that Plazma/MAG-10.
[/quote]

You can’t really look at Plazma in normal terms of calories/macro’s. The effect it and MAG-10 has on the body at just one serving is probably 2-3x greater than the effect the Surge Recovery will have. Its a different animal altogether in regards to effect on the body in comparison.

Most guys, John Meadows, CT, CS, the pro bodybuilders here on T-Nation are reporting the best gains of their careers with the specialized proteins/carbs in Plazma/MAG-10.

With that being said, 1-Finibar 30min prior to training with 1-2 servings of Plazma, pre/during and then a good balanced meal with protein/carbs after when hungry is a great budget approach.

With the great member discounts being offered during month’s like this, there is really no reason not to at least try it for a month and see how things work out! Good luck.


#7

Eazy makes a great point. A calorie is not a calorie and a macronutrient is not a macronutrient, as far as their effects on the body. But we totally understand the budget issue. As good as the older Surge supplements are, Plazma, even just one serving before and one serving during training, is more effective. (I learned this over the weekend. I only had access to Surge Recovery and sure enough I was sore and not recovering as quickly as when using Plazma. It certainly helped, but man, I easily could see how Plazma is superior.)

I was thinking that triple dosing one product vs. using normal servings of Plazma may balance out though. You can double check the math and if you make an order before Monday, be sure to use promo code NEW14 to save some bucks.

Finibar is a solid choice for pre-workout.

Either way, any of these choices will certainly give you the edge.


#8

Ivan, I am a huge fan of Surge Recovery. I have been using it for years. That being said, with the coupon being offered I bought 6 weeks of Plazma and MAG-10. Before my shipment arrived I started CT’s circuit workout which calls for lifting 5x a week for six weeks. The first week I used surge recovery. 1/2 serving before starting and 1/2 during, and 1 serving at the end. I felt pretty good. By the start of the second week my shipment of Plazma/MAG-10 arrived.

I have now been using it for the second and third weeks of training. The difference in how I feel, and look is def noticeable. The Plazma not only causes less bloat, but it just works better. I feel better, I recover faster, and I feel much stronger. I am in the same boat as you as I am on a limited budget. But with the coupon the numbers pretty much added up to the same amount as one of my regular orders with no coupon. My wife however see’s my giant naglene bottle and the giant funnel that came with it and thinks I am a bit of a jackass, but deep down I think she appreciates me taking it.

As I have cut out all the bad habits that cost money. I wanted give the Plazma and MAG-10 a fair shot to see how well they work. I take one Plazma before training, one during, and a MAG-10 an hour after I finish the Plazma. On the heavy days of the program(m,w,f) I take one mag10 an hour after the Plazma, and another an hour later. I think you should give it a try.


#9

I appreciate the insight Chris. I’ll definitely have to reconsider where I stand if such a low dose of Plazma proves superior to Surge. A lot of people on here seem to have experienced this first hand. Looks like I have some homework!