Biotest

Supps for Powerlifter to Cut?


#1

Summary: Powerlift 5/3/1 style, but have to run (up to 5-8 miles) and do calisthenics for job. Goal is to cut 20 lbs of fat while maintaining strength and improving work capacity. Already cut 10 lbs in 2 months using Alpha Male, HOT-ROX, and V-Diet. Is there a way to get better fat loss and performance results using Indigo-3G, Mag-10, Plazma, and/or Micro-PA? (while still using Alpha Male).

Prelude: 2 years ago, I did V-Diet, lost about 10 lbs, 200 to 190. Then tried Indigo-3G, Mag-10, and Anaconda for a couple of months, but never could get the diet (especially figuring out the carb thing) and workout right for it to really work (gained some weight back as fat, and had poor training results then got injured). Then life happened, major income cut and had to cut out all supplements. Gained weight, lost strength.

I am now 39, 5 ft 10 in. I was 212 lbs and 24% bodyfat (51 lbs) in December. Training and dieting results had been flatlined for quite some time, until February when I started back on Alpha Male and HOT-ROX and did the V-Diet. I quickly cut 7 lbs, then slowly another 3 lbs. (Alternating on an off V-Diet while still on Alpha Male and HOT-ROX.) I assume the 10 lbs was fat, waist is smaller and I am lifting better than ever.

My current powerlifting training is a Pavel program very similar to 5/3/1 program. Next month I will switch to 5/3/1 program. When I tried Indigo-3G / Mag-10 / Anaconda 2 years ago, I tried the workout suggested with it. My body did not respond well to high volume at all, quickly got tendonitis and other injuries. I can make slow consistent progress with heavy but low volume program like 5/3/1.

At a different time than weight workouts, I run 5-8 miles 1-3 times a week. May not be the ideal conditioning strategy, but part of the job as are occasional calisthenic workouts.

My immediate goal is to cut 20 lbs of fat and get to where I can compete in 181 class. Long term would be to hold around that weight and get into single digit body fat and add some muscle (i.e. normal weight of 185 with 7% body fat, that would be loosing 25+ lbs of fat and gaining 10 lbs of muscle).

What supplements would work best to cut fat while lifting 5/3/1 style, running 5-8 miles, and if recovery allows, adding some conditioning workouts?

I understand how to do it with whey protein and HOT-ROX, may not be the best way, but it was simple enough I did not mess it up. I hear great things about the new generation of supplements, but I don’t know how to best use them for my goals and workouts.

Thanks!

(Sorry for the long post, wanted to be specific since I have tired Indigo-3G / Mag-10 / Anaconda with less than ideal results before.)


#2

First, let’s cover the obvious but maybe not so obvious: do your food choices suck when you’re not on a designated diet (and that includes alcohol consumption)? I could be way off, but there is a type of lifter out there that’s either on a diet or way off a diet, but there’s very little normal “eat healthfully, avoid crap” the rest of the time. So that’s something just to think about, and it may not apply to you.

All of our competitive bodybuilders are using the stack you mentioned to prepare for their shows – Indigo-3G, Mag-10, Plazma, and Micro-PA. While these aren’t primarily “fat burning” supplements, all of them contribute to fat loss and muscle gain, assuming diet and training are on point. Amit Sapir is using that stack, is 2 weeks out from his show, and has a video in his Micro-PA log squatting 500 for 18 reps, so let’s assume his strength is just fine. But you do have a lot of things going that go against one another - you like to do powerlifting and using powerlifting plans, yet your goal is to mainly lose fat. And you run quite a bit on top of that. I know that’s not your choice, but it doesn’t exactly help with building muscle and getting stronger. I’d recommend only Predator Conditioning “cardio” workouts (see our archives) but I know you don’t have that choice. Just realize that your goals are a little all over the place.

Indigo-3G with workout nutrition (Plazma and Mag-10) would be the best choices for you, per label directions.

Now, if you wanted to kickstart things and get a little extreme, I’d suggest a Pulse Fast once or twice per week, preferably on off days. Basically, have one day where you consume a Mag-10 pulse (one serving) once every few hours for a total of 6 servings per day, spread evenly, and no solid food or other beverages. (If done on a training day, just add workout nutrition drinks). This will break any fat loss plateaus, though if you’re losing about a pound per week right now with your current supplement plan that’s nothing to sneeze at. If it ain’t broke…


#3

Thank you for your recommendations. I realize my goals are not well matched. I love lifting heavy stuff, but my job has different requirements…

I would like to think my regular diet is “good”, but will admit something needs to change because it obviously was not getting me where I want. No alcohol at all ever, and completely wheat free last year.

My HSMs are usually salad or garden veggie, meat (often home grown) and maybe squash, potato, or rice. Doing shakes all day and HSM at night is easy for me. When not V-Dieting, breakfast is usually eggs (home grown true, free range). Lunch was usually leftovers.

Think Alpha Male and HOT-ROX were the biggest key for me starting to get results again. Prior to that had tried similar diet with minimal results, would just crash. Now I lift better and recover better besides losing weight. But have plateaued.

Will study up on Indigo-3G meal plans again and try to figure out how to make it work for me.

Thanks again Chris!


#4

Where are the latest eating guidelines for Indigo 3G? (I did look at the Indigo product page, but can’t find a like for diet recommendations anymore, did not see one in Articles.)

When I tried it a couple years ago, it was recommended to eat so many carbs per day. There were clean carbs (rice?) and so so carbs (potatos?) and dirty carbs (wheat?). I can’t remember the details any more, I do remember it was very different for me because I had been on the low carb bandwagon.

Let me rephrase, after coming off the Vdiet and basically starting over from scratch on solid meals, what should the template look like for a Indigo/Plazma/Mag10 user? For fat loss how much carbs/protein/fat should I be shooting for per day outside of the I/P/M stack?

I’ll just assume I had a bad diet and plan on starting over with a new eating pattern to use the I/P/M stack.

Thanks!


#5

<a href="http://www.t-nation.com/strength-training-topics/1617"target=“new”>Indigo-3G Carb Guide

There are the general guidelines. When focusing on fat loss, you just adjust calories down elsewhere outside of workout nutrition. Here’s a snippet from an upcoming article by Thibaudeau on that:

Mistake: Getting Rid of Workout Nutrition Carbs

For a long time carbs were the enemy of fat loss. That was especially true during the low-carb diet craze a few years back. Nobody was as carbophobic as I was. So I do understand the impulse to suddenly stop taking in peri-workout carbs (before, during and post-workout) when dieting down.

Listen, a proper peri-workout formula like Plazma that contains fast acting di- and tri- peptides and functional carbs is your absolute best insurance policy when it comes to preserving (or even increasing) muscle mass when dieting down, so dropping carbs is one of the worst things you can do. If anything you should increase your peri-workout nutrient intake when dieting down. Go ahead and reduce carbs and calories for the rest of the day to get the maximum fat burning effect possible, but leave the peri-workout window alone!

Don’t be afraid of peri-workout carbs (especially the highly-branched cyclodextrins in Plazma since they actually have fat burning effects) as they won’t be stored as fat or reduce your rate of fat loss. In fact, they’ll increase your rate of fat loss by allowing you to train harder and keep your metabolic rate higher.


#6

So 3 doses of Plazma before and during afternoon WO then potatoes or rice with dinner is enough carbs for IG3?


#7

[quote]unimog wrote:
So 3 doses of Plazma before and during afternoon WO then potatoes or rice with dinner is enough carbs for IG3?
[/quote]

It’s somewhat individual. When people take two servings of Indigo-3G per day (one pre-workout nutrition, one pre-dinner or another meal) we often recommend around 300g of carbs per day, then adjusting from there. That counts peri-workout supps. Some have consumed less than that, some way more. But the main thing to remember is basically not to do a low carb or carb-free diet when using Indigo. Some take care of workout nutrition (Plazma, Mag-10, Finibar etc) then keep carbs as low as possible at the other feedings in the day. May take a week or so to fine tune things for each person.


#8

When you say two servings of IG3 (pre WO and pre dinner), is that splitting 6 capsules into 2 doses of 3? The label looked like the directions were for one dose per day.

I have not used IG3 since the formula was revised. I appreciate your patience, I want make sure I am using IG3 as effectively as possible for fat loss while getting its other benefits.

BTW - yesterday’s running was 100m sprint repeats, a bit more Predator style than a 5 mile slow run.


#9

No, that’s 12 capsules per day, which is what many choose to use (2 servings of 6). It’s optional, but many who have real issues with carbs have found it very helpful. Some do that for a few weeks, then go back to single serving per day.