Biotest

Pull Up Strength vs Dip Strength


#1

CT How should pull up strength compare to dip strength in general? I understand there are variations on both, but just in overall scope. I ask because I have been adding bodyweight exercise at the end of my workouts and try to get as many reps in 5 sets and then once I hit 50 reps in 5 sets add weight. Well on dips I’ve added 35 lbs and as of today got 40 reps in 5 sets and yesterday on pull up’s I added 5 lbs and got 35 reps.


#2

[quote]Jimjamin wrote:
CT How should pull up strength compare to dip strength in general? I understand there are variations on both, but just in overall scope. I ask because I have been adding bodyweight exercise at the end of my workouts and try to get as many reps in 5 sets and then once I hit 50 reps in 5 sets add weight. Well on dips I’ve added 35 lbs and as of today got 40 reps in 5 sets and yesterday on pull up’s I added 5 lbs and got 35 reps.[/quote]

I might write a piece on strength ratios because I think it’s an interesting topic.

We must not forget that pressers and pullers have different leverages so the ratio might not nbe exact or ideal for everybody.

But I believe that the dips should be 15% stronger than supinated chin-ups. This includes bodyweight. For example if you are 185lbs and can do 5 dips with 85lbs (total of 270lbs) a balanced strength level for chin-ups would be 230lbs total so doing 5 reps with 45lbs of extra weight.

And the weighted dips should be 105% of the bench press number. So if you can bench press 275lbs for 5 reps would should be able to do dips with a combined weight (bodyweight + extra weight) of 290lbs (rounded) for 5 reps. If you are 185lbs that means using an extra 105lbs for a set of 5 reps.

This also means that you should be able to do 5 supinated chin-ups with an extra 60lbs.


#3

Thanks a lot for the info, look forward to the article. I’m always wondering if I’m keeping balance in my muscle strengths. It would also be interesting to see what different strength ratios are for different muscle groups.


#4

[quote]Jimjamin wrote:
Thanks a lot for the info, look forward to the article. I’m always wondering if I’m keeping balance in my muscle strengths. It would also be interesting to see what different strength ratios are for different muscle groups.[/quote]

It’s such a good subject that I just wrote the article in about 15 minutes!!! Very interesting topic. And since I’m all about problem solving, I really believe that identifying weak areas is the key to progress.


#5

CT, my dips are about 140% of the bench press numbers, with a full ROM. Does that mean that my bench press technique must be terrible?


#6

[quote]knokkelezoute73 wrote:
CT, my dips are about 140% of the bench press numbers, with a full ROM. Does that mean that my bench press technique must be terrible?[/quote]
I’m in the same boat!


#7

[quote]knokkelezoute73 wrote:
CT, my dips are about 140% of the bench press numbers, with a full ROM. Does that mean that my bench press technique must be terrible?[/quote]

Terrible, no, maybe suboptimal. Or could be disadvantageous bench press mechanics or relatively weaker shoulders… how is your overhead pressing strength?


#8

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]knokkelezoute73 wrote:
CT, my dips are about 140% of the bench press numbers, with a full ROM. Does that mean that my bench press technique must be terrible?[/quote]

Terrible, no, maybe suboptimal. Or could be disadvantageous bench press mechanics or relatively weaker shoulders… how is your overhead pressing strength?[/quote]

Max strict press is about 70% of max flat bench press. BTN is not that far behind.


#9

[quote]knokkelezoute73 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]knokkelezoute73 wrote:
CT, my dips are about 140% of the bench press numbers, with a full ROM. Does that mean that my bench press technique must be terrible?[/quote]

Terrible, no, maybe suboptimal. Or could be disadvantageous bench press mechanics or relatively weaker shoulders… how is your overhead pressing strength?[/quote]

Max strict press is about 70% of max flat bench press. BTN is not that far behind.
[/quote]

Max strict standing press should be about 60% of your bench. How about your close-grip bench. It doesn’t seem like a shoulder strength issue. Seems like either a technique or triceps issue.


#10

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]knokkelezoute73 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]knokkelezoute73 wrote:
CT, my dips are about 140% of the bench press numbers, with a full ROM. Does that mean that my bench press technique must be terrible?[/quote]

Terrible, no, maybe suboptimal. Or could be disadvantageous bench press mechanics or relatively weaker shoulders… how is your overhead pressing strength?[/quote]

Max strict press is about 70% of max flat bench press. BTN is not that far behind.
[/quote]

Max strict standing press should be about 60% of your bench. How about your close-grip bench. It doesn’t seem like a shoulder strength issue. Seems like either a technique or triceps issue.[/quote]

Close-grip (index by the smooth) is pretty close (I’d say about 92 - 95%, based on projected max) to regular (which is pinkies just inside the rings for me). Bench pressing has always felt slightly off and has been very frustrating to progress. Dips, wide or narrow, feel so much stronger, and pain free even with a very full ROM.


#11

[quote]Colbstar wrote:

[quote]knokkelezoute73 wrote:
CT, my dips are about 140% of the bench press numbers, with a full ROM. Does that mean that my bench press technique must be terrible?[/quote]
I’m in the same boat![/quote]

Maybe there’s hope for us :slight_smile:


#12

[quote]knokkelezoute73 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]knokkelezoute73 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]knokkelezoute73 wrote:
CT, my dips are about 140% of the bench press numbers, with a full ROM. Does that mean that my bench press technique must be terrible?[/quote]

Terrible, no, maybe suboptimal. Or could be disadvantageous bench press mechanics or relatively weaker shoulders… how is your overhead pressing strength?[/quote]

Max strict press is about 70% of max flat bench press. BTN is not that far behind.
[/quote]

Max strict standing press should be about 60% of your bench. How about your close-grip bench. It doesn’t seem like a shoulder strength issue. Seems like either a technique or triceps issue.[/quote]

Close-grip (index by the smooth) is pretty close (I’d say about 92 - 95%, based on projected max) to regular (which is pinkies just inside the rings for me). Bench pressing has always felt slightly off and has been very frustrating to progress. Dips, wide or narrow, feel so much stronger, and pain free even with a very full ROM.
[/quote]

Yeah, it’s a technique/structure issue… all your corresponding lifts are high… overhead is 10% over where it should be, close-grip is about 5% and dips are even higher.

So strength wise you have what it takes for about 7-10% more on the bench press. So it is likely a technical issue or just a lack of efficiency on that lift.


#13

I see. Thanks a lot for your time, Christian.


#14

CT, Thanks for writing the “Know Your Ratios” article very informative and will go a long way in how I can program my training by just looking at these ratios. I see my shoulder strength is 20 lbs below the norm in both the OHP and the Push Press. A shoulder spec is in store in the near future.