Biotest

Plazma with a Pre-Workout

Is it ok to use Plazma with another pre-workout supplement?

It depends on how you define pre-workout. If it’s a plain stimulant, that’s fine. If by “pre-workout” you mean another workout NUTRITION supplement, then no, that will only interfere with Plazma.

I’m personally not a fan of pre-workout drinks (stimulants). I believe that they are abused my many and if used for more than the occasional pick-me up then they can have more drawbacks than benefits.

I work with a lot of Crossfit athletes and pre-WODs (what they call pre-workout drinks with tons of stimulants) and had to “rehab” a lot of them who started to have signs of adrenal fatigue and who became dependent on those drinks. I use a mix of BRAIN CANDY, POWER DRIVE and ALPHA-GPC to take them off of their dependency for pre-WODs.

I’ll try to simply explain why I don’t like those pre-workout drinks.

  1. We live in a society of desensitization to stimulants. People, even young kids abuse stimulants in all forms including the drug of choice of the time speed/amphetamines. I find that young people these days are desensitized to stimulants and as a result the companies overload their pre-workouts so that people will “feel something”. The amount of “drugs” in some of these products are enough to have bad side-effects. Not to mention that some shady companies actually were caught spiking their pre-workout with actual amphetamines.

  2. Add to that the mentality of “if one is good, two is twice as good” and you have the potential for abuse of a serious nature.

  3. Stimulants “force” your body to produce more adrenalin and nor-adrenalin (via the adrenal glands). It is forced to produce A LOT more than it is programmed to do under normal circumstances. Those hormones have for main purpose to allow you to fight stress or run away from it by making energy more readily available, by increasing heart rate, contractile strength and mental awareness (among other things).

  4. If you constantly ask your adrenal glands to produce more than they are programmed to do, you can overload/fatigue those glands and overtime they will have a hard time producing adrenalin/noradrenalin… or they will become desensitized to the stimulant to protect themselves from chronic overproduction. That’s obviously a bad thing… you will begin to lack energy, will feel run down, etc.

  5. In that situation you will often begin to up the dose to get more stimulation… you are just compounding the problem and overtime your body will have a very hard time producing adrenalin/noradrenalin. What happens then?

  6. You have some other hormones that can do part of the job of adrenalin… cortisol and glucagon for example. Both are responsible for making energy available to your muscles/brain (e.g. by mobilizing stored fat, glycogen and amino acids). So in some regard cortisol can be seen as a “low-grade adrenalin”. It cannot do all that adrenalin does, but it can keep you functional, at least energy-wise.

  7. I don’t need to remind you of the drawbacks of cortisol for building muscle. If cortisol is constantly elevated over baseline, especially if it’s more elevated than your anabolic hormones, then you will breakdown more muscle tissue than you build. Resulting in muscle loss.

  8. So in the short term stimulant abuse can lead to a fatigue rebound, in the medium term it can lead to muscle loss and in the long term what can it do?

  9. Cortisol is fabricated from the same “mother hormone” as testosterone: pregnenolone. If your body produces more and more cortisol (to compensate for the lack of adrenalin) it means that it uses up more and more pregnenolone. LEAVING LESS FOR THE PRODUCTION OF TESTOSTERONE! So over time not only will your main catabolic hormone (cortisol) will be elevated, but one of your main anabolic one (testosterone) will go down!

  10. And if that’s not enough, cortisol and testosterone share the same second messenger at the cellular level. The more cortisol you have present, the harder it will be for your testosterone to do it’s job. These last two points mean: less muscle, more fat, less energy, less libido.

NOW if that is not enough, consider the following:

It is my expert opinion that peri-workout nutrition is THE MOST IMPORTANT factor to maximize your gains. Having growth-stimulating nutrients in your before, during and after your workout is key to growing as fast as you can. HOWEVER THAT IS NOT ENOUGH. You also need to transport/store as many of these nutrients as possible in your muscles.

I think we can all agree to that.

But what does that have to do with pre-workout stimulants? Remember that adrenalin is a MOBILIZATION hormone. THE MORE YOUR SPIKE IT, THE HARDER IT IS TO DO THE OPPOSITE THING: STORE NUTRIENTS. More adrenalin = looking to mobilize, not store nutrients.

I’m not saying that you wont store or send anything to the muscles, but you WILL diminish the effect of the all-important peri-workout nutrition. And to me that is a HUGE mistake.

That’s why I personally prefer to use supplements that have a positive effect on the nervous system (increasing focus, confidence, coordination, etc.) instead of having a strong systemic effect. I’m looking for a nootropic agent, not a stimulant.

That’s why I LOVE BRAIN CANDY and ALPHA-GPC. Both will optimize neural function and increase performance without the drawbacks of heavy stimulant use.

I also like POWER DRIVE to help with neural recovery.

I am NOT against occasional use of stimulants. For example when I shot my 180kg high pull video I did use SPIKE to get me amped up and turn in a great performance. But stimulants should be just that" something you use to get an little extra something when you really need it, not something that should be part of your everyday routine.

Excellent post Coach. 2 questions:

1 I understand that you are referring to decaf BC as you don’t really use caffeine if memory serves. What are your thoughts on using regular BC? I personally much prefer BC to decaf BC. Am I shooting myself in the foot with 300 mg of caffeine? Sure; theanine is there to offset most sides associated with caffeine but it would be interested to hear what your thoughts are on this. Decaf BC and Alpha GPC don’ cut it for me

2 Doesn’t tyrosine in Power Drive have an effect on catecholamine production? I suppose they won’t be replenished beyond baseline in any case?

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
I’m personally not a fan of pre-workout drinks (stimulants). I believe that they are abused my many and if used for more than the occasional pick-me up then they can have more drawbacks than benefits.

I work with a lot of Crossfit athletes and pre-WODs (what they call pre-workout drinks with tons of stimulants) and had to “rehab” a lot of them who started to have signs of adrenal fatigue and who became dependent on those drinks. I use a mix of BRAIN CANDY, Power Drive and ALPHA-GPC to take them off of their dependency for pre-WODs.

I’ll try to simply explain why I don’t like those pre-workout drinks.

  1. We live in a society of desensitization to stimulants. People, even young kids abuse stimulants in all forms including the drug of choice of the time speed/amphetamines. I find that young people these days are desensitized to stimulants and as a result the companies overload their pre-workouts so that people will “feel something”. The amount of “drugs” in some of these products are enough to have bad side-effects. Not to mention that some shady companies actually were caught spiking their pre-workout with actual amphetamines.

  2. Add to that the mentality of “if one is good, two is twice as good” and you have the potential for abuse of a serious nature.

  3. Stimulants “force” your body to produce more adrenalin and nor-adrenalin (via the adrenal glands). It is forced to produce A LOT more than it is programmed to do under normal circumstances. Those hormones have for main purpose to allow you to fight stress or run away from it by making energy more readily available, by increasing heart rate, contractile strength and mental awareness (among other things).

  4. If you constantly ask your adrenal glands to produce more than they are programmed to do, you can overload/fatigue those glands and overtime they will have a hard time producing adrenalin/noradrenalin… or they will become desensitized to the stimulant to protect themselves from chronic overproduction. That’s obviously a bad thing… you will begin to lack energy, will feel run down, etc.

  5. In that situation you will often begin to up the dose to get more stimulation… you are just compounding the problem and overtime your body will have a very hard time producing adrenalin/noradrenalin. What happens then?

  6. You have some other hormones that can do part of the job of adrenalin… cortisol and glucagon for example. Both are responsible for making energy available to your muscles/brain (e.g. by mobilizing stored fat, glycogen and amino acids). So in some regard cortisol can be seen as a “low-grade adrenalin”. It cannot do all that adrenalin does, but it can keep you functional, at least energy-wise.

  7. I don’t need to remind you of the drawbacks of cortisol for building muscle. If cortisol is constantly elevated over baseline, especially if it’s more elevated than your anabolic hormones, then you will breakdown more muscle tissue than you build. Resulting in muscle loss.

  8. So in the short term stimulant abuse can lead to a fatigue rebound, in the medium term it can lead to muscle loss and in the long term what can it do?

  9. Cortisol is fabricated from the same “mother hormone” as testosterone: pregnenolone. If your body produces more and more cortisol (to compensate for the lack of adrenalin) it means that it uses up more and more pregnenolone. LEAVING LESS FOR THE PRODUCTION OF TESTOSTERONE! So over time not only will your main catabolic hormone (cortisol) will be elevated, but one of your main anabolic one (testosterone) will go down!

  10. And if that’s not enough, cortisol and testosterone share the same second messenger at the cellular level. The more cortisol you have present, the harder it will be for your testosterone to do it’s job. These last two points mean: less muscle, more fat, less energy, less libido.

NOW if that is not enough, consider the following:

It is my expert opinion that peri-workout nutrition is THE MOST IMPORTANT factor to maximize your gains. Having growth-stimulating nutrients in your before, during and after your workout is key to growing as fast as you can. HOWEVER THAT IS NOT ENOUGH. You also need to transport/store as many of these nutrients as possible in your muscles.

I think we can all agree to that.

But what does that have to do with pre-workout stimulants? Remember that adrenalin is a MOBILIZATION hormone. THE MORE YOUR SPIKE IT, THE HARDER IT IS TO DO THE OPPOSITE THING: STORE NUTRIENTS. More adrenalin = looking to mobilize, not store nutrients.

I’m not saying that you wont store or send anything to the muscles, but you WILL diminish the effect of the all-important peri-workout nutrition. And to me that is a HUGE mistake.

That’s why I personally prefer to use supplements that have a positive effect on the nervous system (increasing focus, confidence, coordination, etc.) instead of having a strong systemic effect. I’m looking for a nootropic agent, not a stimulant.

That’s why I LOVE BRAIN CANDY and ALPHA-GPC. Both will optimize neural function and increase performance without the drawbacks of heavy stimulant use.

I also like Power Drive to help with neural recovery.

I am NOT against occasional use of stimulants. For example when I shot my 180kg high pull video I did use SPIKE to get me amped up and turn in a great performance. But stimulants should be just that" something you use to get an little extra something when you really need it, not something that should be part of your everyday routine.[/quote]

and a bonus question:) what about a cup of coffee pre workout?

I was drinking a regular Brain Candy every morning and a full bottle of BSN Endorush (420 mg caffeine) before workouts. On workout days I was getting 720 mg of caffeine.

Then I went into atrial fibrillation and have since cut out all the caffeine containing products. So it’s Plazma, Alpha GPC, and Caffeine Free Brain Candy for me now. I haven’t noticed any negative effects on my training.

[quote]juverulez wrote:
and a bonus question:) what about a cup of coffee pre workout? [/quote]

That’s fine… I wouldn’t use cream or milk as it might slow down the absorption of PLAZMA

[quote]juverulez wrote:
Excellent post Coach. 2 questions:

1 I understand that you are referring to decaf BC as you don’t really use caffeine if memory serves. What are your thoughts on using regular BC? I personally much prefer BC to decaf BC. Am I shooting myself in the foot with 300 mg of caffeine? Sure; theanine is there to offset most sides associated with caffeine but it would be interested to hear what your thoughts are on this. Decaf BC and Alpha GPC don’ cut it for me

2 Doesn’t tyrosine in Power Drive have an effect on catecholamine production? I suppose they won’t be replenished beyond baseline in any case?
[/quote]

  1. I actually use regular Brain Candy now. It’s fine. Not enough caffeine to cause an issue.

  2. Tyrosine has a slight effect that is not going to be problematic, if fact it might actually help the adrenal glands function properly.

Thank you for the prompt response coach. A follow up question now that I think about it:
I usually drink 5g of BCAA supplement (MTS bran) during my workout. Is this ok or will that effect the Plazma. My plan it to use Indigo-3G before workout as prescribed on the label, one dose Plazma pre workout and one dose Mag-10 post workout.

I also eat breakfast: 1/2 cup (dry) steel cut oats with 1/2 cup blueberries before about 30 minutes my workout. I should take Indigo-3G before this right?

[quote]topher1729 wrote:
Thank you for the prompt response coach. A follow up question now that I think about it:
I usually drink 5g of BCAA supplement (MTS bran) during my workout. Is this ok or will that effect the Plazma. My plan it to use Indigo-3G before workout as prescribed on the label, one dose Plazma pre workout and one dose Mag-10 post workout.

I also eat breakfast: 1/2 cup (dry) steel cut oats with 1/2 cup blueberries before about 30 minutes my workout. I should take Indigo-3G before this right?[/quote]

  1. The 5g ob BCAA wont hurt, but honestly they wont add anything to PLAZMA

  2. The breakfast is a tad too close to the workout IMHO…it will not be fully absorbed yet and may slow down the absorption of PLAZMA. And yes you should take Indigo prior to your breakfast, at least 30 minutes before it, even sooner if possible.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]topher1729 wrote:
Thank you for the prompt response coach. A follow up question now that I think about it:
I usually drink 5g of BCAA supplement (MTS bran) during my workout. Is this ok or will that effect the Plazma. My plan it to use Indigo-3G before workout as prescribed on the label, one dose Plazma pre workout and one dose MAG-10 post workout.

I also eat breakfast: 1/2 cup (dry) steel cut oats with 1/2 cup blueberries before about 30 minutes my workout. I should take Indigo-3G before this right?[/quote]

  1. The 5g ob BCAA wont hurt, but honestly they wont add anything to PLAZMA

  2. The breakfast is a tad too close to the workout IMHO…it will not be fully absorbed yet and may slow down the absorption of PLAZMA. And yes you should take Indigo prior to your breakfast, at least 30 minutes before it, even sooner if possible.[/quote]

Gotcha. I wake up around 6am to take my child to daycare. I typicall eat around 830 and start my workout at 900-915.

My understanding from this thread is I should take Indigo-3G around 745 and eat around 8?

[quote]topher1729 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]topher1729 wrote:
Thank you for the prompt response coach. A follow up question now that I think about it:
I usually drink 5g of BCAA supplement (MTS bran) during my workout. Is this ok or will that effect the Plazma. My plan it to use Indigo-3G before workout as prescribed on the label, one dose Plazma pre workout and one dose MAG-10 post workout.

I also eat breakfast: 1/2 cup (dry) steel cut oats with 1/2 cup blueberries before about 30 minutes my workout. I should take Indigo-3G before this right?[/quote]

  1. The 5g ob BCAA wont hurt, but honestly they wont add anything to PLAZMA

  2. The breakfast is a tad too close to the workout IMHO…it will not be fully absorbed yet and may slow down the absorption of PLAZMA. And yes you should take Indigo prior to your breakfast, at least 30 minutes before it, even sooner if possible.[/quote]

Gotcha. I wake up around 6am to take my child to daycare. I typicall eat around 830 and start my workout at 900-915.

My understanding from this thread is I should take Indigo-3G around 745 and eat around 8?
[/quote]

That would be better

Thank you coach. I have always had issues with caffeinated drinks (yeah, I tried it with theanine as well)but BC original blows them all off the charts (in a good way).

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]juverulez wrote:
Excellent post Coach. 2 questions:

1 I understand that you are referring to decaf BC as you don’t really use caffeine if memory serves. What are your thoughts on using regular BC? I personally much prefer BC to decaf BC. Am I shooting myself in the foot with 300 mg of caffeine? Sure; theanine is there to offset most sides associated with caffeine but it would be interested to hear what your thoughts are on this. Decaf BC and Alpha GPC don’ cut it for me

2 Doesn’t tyrosine in Power Drive have an effect on catecholamine production? I suppose they won’t be replenished beyond baseline in any case?
[/quote]

  1. I actually use regular Brain Candy now. It’s fine. Not enough caffeine to cause an issue.

  2. Tyrosine has a slight effect that is not going to be problematic, if fact it might actually help the adrenal glands function properly.[/quote]

Week 1
Day weight Indigo breakfast Plazma MAG-10 post meal
1 169 730a 800a 855a 1050a 1130a
2 170.6 730a 810a 855a 1048a 1140a
3 169.1 730a 807a 854a 1053a 1150a
4 169 600a 630a 646a 820a 945a

Training on days 1-3 were from 915a - about 1030a. Did chest on day 1, back on day 2, arms on day 3 and legs on day 4. Skipped a day this week (shoulders) due to a lingering shoulder injury that should be ready to go next week

How do my times look. I am taking 4 Indigo 3g, 1 scoop Plazma and 1 scoop MAG-10. My goal is strength and proportionate size.

*These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

Disclaimer: Individual results may vary.