Biotest

Plazma for Fat Guys?


#1

Hi Chris,

I train a few guys in their 50’s who are over 280lbs and 20-30% bodyfat. I’m honored that they let me help them with their exercise and nutrition strategies. The problem is that they are so out of shape that performing more than 1 weightlifting exercise per bodypart leaves them very sore. So, I have them do fullbody workouts 3 x week as they build up tolerance.

Each workout rotates between an exercise for one bodypart (ie legs) being heavier weight, lower reps with adequate rest time and an exercise for the other bodyparts (ie chest and back) being lighter weights, higher reps, and shorter rest times. Workouts take only 20-30 minutes. Any more volume and they get too sore. I also ask them to walk 60 minutes daily.

Some of these guys are avid fitness blog readers and at least one is convinced that insulin should be spiked around workout times. He’s taking Indigo and 3 scoops of Plazma prior to and during his <20 min weight workout. But it’s such a short workout, I don’t think he should. I recommend that he take Indigo and Mag-10, but not take Plazma until he improves his insulin resistance, fitness levels, and bodyfat numbers.

We’re debating the issue. He thinks that if he takes more and more Plazma he won’t be as sore. But he still gets sore and he complains that he’s so sleepy after his workout that he’s gotta take a nap. I think the sleepiness results from insulin issues and that his endocrine system is not yet ready to utilize the power of Plazma.

Question: What is the appropriate use of Plazma for insulin resistant, high bodyfat individuals who can tolerate only a short, low-volume weightlifting workout?

Question: Is there a different peri-workout strategy recommended for this group of people?


#2

Good question, sbearnso.

I’d expect some soreness in older guys new to training (or just getting back into it). Plazma helps but new exercises or new set/rep ranges can still cause some. But that said, yes, we’d agree with you and say that 3 servings of Plazma for just a 20 minute workout is probably overkill. In fact, most people only need 1 serving pre-loaded and 1 serving during. Plazma is potent stuff. I only use 3 servings myself if the workout goes over 1.5 hours and it’s something like leg day + loaded carries. Sure, some people go up to 4 or more servings, but we’re talking beastly pro-bodybuilders training 2+ hours.

It’s not that the carbs in Plazma will make someone fat. That’s practically impossible given the thermic nature of the carbs and other effects. But 3 servings isn’t needed for a 20 minute workout.

A better plan would be only a pre-load serving of <a href="http://www.t-nation.com/store/products/plazma"target=“new”>Plazma for 20 minute weight training workouts, then a serving of Mag-10 after. <a href="http://www.t-nation.com/store/products/indigo-3g"target=“new”>Indigo-3G is a great choice though, and for these guys I’d suggest two servings daily, 6 capsules each - one serving before training, one before another meal (doses about 6 hours apart.) For more of a conditioning-only type of workout, we’d suggest Mag-10 only.


#3

from personal experience, I can tell you that if you feel sleepy after peri-workout carbohydrates, then it most probably is due to insulin resistance

personally, I would go from 3 scoops to 1 scoop of plazma preworkout

38g for a 20min session is still a lot!

so if that still causes sleepiness then it may be worth reducing the dose further or sticking to protein until insulin resistance improves


#4

Sbearnso, the sleepiness is being caused by the carbs increasing serotonin levels. This would indicate to me that perhaps the carb load is excessive and the extra carbs not being utilized by the working muscles are, instead, raising serotonin levels.

I’m 52 yo myself, so I may be able to shed some light on your clients’ situation. First, they’re in their 50’s; no amount of Plazma/MAG-10 is going to eliminate their soreness–I know, I’ve tried! Secondly, I’ve been training for 30+ years and have learned to train with intensity (yes, it’s a skill you have to learn), but I still only use 2 servings of Plazma per workout (and my training is usually in the 30-40 min. range, though, depending on the “cycle” , it may be longer). Three servings of Plazma for a 20 min. workout is CLEARLY excessive.

Concerning age and training: I’ve found that as I’ve gotten older (as well as older clients I train), it’s imperative that training sessions be kept short, intense (to the degree possible), and productive. I’ve found through a LOT of experimentation that 30-40 min. (including warm-up ) is usually optimal. Thus, training density is a key variable that has to be improved in older clients. This will obviously be challenging for older out-of-shape individuals, but is essential if you want to get a productive amount of volume and intensity completed in 30-40 min.

Especially for older people not accustomed to intense training, I believe it’s essential that their sessions be short and productive leaving them feeling energized and alive, rather than drained ,wiped out, and sleepy.

Hope that helps,

Crowbar


#5

Chris,

is it possible the sleepiness caused by Indigo 3G but not the excessive carbs from Plazma(with 20 min workout)?

what is your recommendation for guys using Indigo 3G with 20 minute workouts?(i saw you recommend using Mag-10 only after short workout/Metcon, so no carbs after Indigo 3G for such metcon workout?)

thanks for help


#6

Very, very unlikely because there’s nothing in Indigo that should cause sleepiness. Also, we do suggest sticking only to the label recommended dose (we tried sending you an e-mail about your previous post but it bounced back as undeliverable). The dosing guidelines Shugart mentioned above, in 2014, were referencing a previous version of the product that had different dosing guidelines.

If it’s a lifting session, use the Indigo as directed before training. You’ll still benefit from it.