Biotest

Plazma & Endurance Athletes


#1

Hello,

I’ve been looking into Plazma and am quite intrigued. I am an ironman triathlete and mountain ultrarunner (lots of running up 14k peaks). I’ve had very good success incorporating Surge Workout Fuel and Finibars into my workouts and races.

Has Biotest and T-Nation used Plazma with any of their athletes that might be in endurance training/events for 6-24 hours? Or even if not a Biotest sponsored athlete, perhaps you could reference anyone within T-Nation that have used for such things and what their results may have been.

Thanks!


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Plan for Long Endurance Event?
#2

Tim Patterson has worked with an Iron Man triathlon competitor using <a href="http://www.t-nation.com/store/products/plazma"target=“new”>Plazma. I’m not sure of the protocol he used however and will check into it for you.

<a href="http://www.t-nation.com/store/products/surge-workout-fuel"target=“new”>Surge Workout Fuel and <a href="http://www.t-nation.com/store/products/finibar-competition-bar"target=“new”>Finibar are excellent choices for you, but I’ll see if Tim has any guidelines for using Plazma in extreme endurance sports.


#3

Tim Patterson says he has every confidence that he can help you blow away your PRs and wants to work with you on this. Stay tuned.

By the way, here’s the story about Tim working with the triathlon athlete:

The Plazma Experiment

Tim Patterson is always doing experiments. There's even a rumor that there's a collection of brains in pickle jars down in the Biotest cellar. At least that's what Igor says.

For instance, last year, in accordance with his experimenting nature, Tim tried out something out on what he considered to be a nearly impossible challenge. The subject of his experiment was an endurance athlete who participates in triathlons, only he doesn’t really train for them to the degree he should. He sometimes enters competitions and then comes pretty close to kidney failure, peeing blood, passing out, and they practically have to Air Evac him out of there.

Partly as a humanitarian effort and partly as an exploratory scientific endeavor, Tim develops a formula to essentially pull nutrients into working muscle and keep this triathlete from destroying muscle and from dehydrating. His goal was to create a nutrient complex that has the perfect chemistry to continuously drive fluids and nutrients into muscle to the extent it would revive and fuel someone who’s dying from extreme exhaustion.

A few weeks later, the triathlete is scheduled to do a casual race in Europe with two professional bike riders and their route would take them over 3 mountain passes. The three cyclists have done it before, and normally our triathlete spends the race looking at the skinny asses of the pros in front of him until he completely gasses out, which usually occurs before the second mountain pass.

But this time, Tim gives him the formula before the race and he ends up blowing past one of the pros on the second pass, and goes on to easily complete the race. Obviously, this triathlete is sold on the formula and protocol, and now he won’t compete without it. “He’s invincible at this point, really,” says Patterson.

Intrigued by this effect, Tim starts thinking about how else he might use the principles he learned through the triathlete experiment. He thinks to himself, “This thing is crazy because, during the most extreme physical demands, we have muscle pulling in nutrients as if it were a vacuum, and the effect completely revolutionizes sports performance. I’m going to see if we can get a similar effect with muscle growth and recovery. Whatever this is doing for endurance athletes, it should do substantially more for bodybuilders and power athletes.”


#4

I will be keeping an eye on this. I am always looking for something to give me more energy during hockey games. The third period is killer!


#5

joemamma,

Tim Patterson has taken note of your unique situation and wants to help you out.

Here’s what we need you to do:

Start a new thread here in Biotest Supplement Advice. Tell Tim about your situation and include info about how you train, the supplements you’re using, and your ultimate goals. Include a photo of yourself ideally. Tim would like to help you develop the perfect plan for your needs.


#6

Awesome! Thanks Chris and Tim!

In 24 days I’m running the Zane Grey 50 here in northern Arizona. It’s generally regarded as the toughest 50 mile race in the country with over 10,000 feet of cumulative elevation gain and plenty of boulder hopping. I have other similar events coming up this year and dialing in the nutrition is one of the biggest factors!

zanegrey50.com/Course.html

Please let me know if there is further I can provide.


#7

Wow that race looks crazy. I’m really interested to see how Biotest can help you with this.


#8

[quote]joemomma wrote:
I will be keeping an eye on this. I am always looking for something to give me more energy during hockey games. The third period is killer![/quote]

I really like Surge Workout Fuel for hockey.

But I’ll be following this thread. Too cool!


#9

[quote]JN7844 wrote:

I’ve been looking into Plazma and am quite intrigued. I am an ironman triathlete and mountain ultrarunner (lots of running up 14k peaks). I’ve had very good success incorporating Surge Workout Fuel and Finibars into my workouts and races.

Has Biotest and T-Nation used Plazma with any of their athletes that might be in endurance training/events for 6-24 hours? Or even if not a Biotest sponsored athlete, perhaps you could reference anyone within T-Nation that have used for such things and what their results may have been.[/quote]

If you’re up for it, I’d like to work with you on a tough challenge — see if we can scare you a bit (in a good way). If you’re game, here’s what I need to get started:

  1. Create an event that we can use as an ultimate challenge for you. Describe it in detail.

  2. Determine a training program to prepare you for the challenge. Tell me what exactly you plan to do, including number of training days per week, how long each day, intensity, and overall duration of the program (number of weeks).

  3. I also want you to come up with some sort of (smaller) evaluation challenge that would test your readiness for the big event. Again, describe it in detail.

After I see your plans, I’m sure I’ll have a few more questions before we get down to business.

Are you getting nervous, yet?..


#10

Tim,

I greatly appreciate your interest and willingness to help out. While I have a few events in the next couple of months, my ultimate challenge will come late in the summer.

My ultimate challenge for this year will be the Flagstaff Endurance Race up in the Coconino National Forest of northern Arizona. The race is scheduled to take place on September 14. It is 50 miles long and will have around 10,000 ft of net elevation gain and the same in descent. Here is the course summary from the race website:

“The Flagstaff Endurance Runs are held on over 25 miles of forest service trails and almost 7 miles of dirt forest service roads at an elevation between 7,000 and 9,000 feet. The course features five significant climbs on Upper Oldham (1850+ ft), Lower Weatherford (1750+ ft), Friedlein Prairie Road (1100+ ft), Little Gnarly/Brookbank (1400+ ft), and Heart Trail (1900+ ft). The combination of elevation gain/loss and Flagstaff’s high altitude makes the courses very difficult and NOT recommended for beginning trail runners.”

There will be 7 aid stations throughout the course that will be spaced 5-8 miles apart. At most aid stations they have your typical Gatorade, gummy bears, pretzels, etc., but you and I know that’s obviously not optimal. Heck, some of that stuff can wreak serious havoc on the gut in a long race and have you vomiting over the side of a mountain. The good news is at each of those aid stations I will have a drop bag to gather whatever I need; such as changing drinks and grabbing a bar. Even with having to go through my own bag I’m always in and out of an aid station in about 30 seconds. As with any race, I always want to finish, but last year carried a significant drop-out rate. I have to be in desperate circumstances for that to occur.

The climbs in this race can be steep and long and the descents can carry plenty of loose rock or scree. Mountain lions and black bear sightings might have me running faster as well. Overall this race is tough as hell (just the way I like it) and I’m hopeful to finish under 12 hours.

Evaulation Challenge: The race leading up to my ultimate challenge I will primarily treat as a long training run as opposed to a race. It will be the Hypnosis Night Run in the Estrella Mountain Regional Park in Arizona on August 10. I will do the 62k (38.4 miles). While the race doesn’t have the elevation profile of my ultimate challenge in Flagstaff, it will still carry a few steep inclines, swooping turns, technical descents, and rugged terrain. It also comes with a few unique challenges. First of all, it’s just outside of Phoenix- in August - so it’ll be hot. Most days in August are 115 degrees with overnights dropping down to a toasty 100. It becomes further difficult because the race begins at 7pm which is 20 minutes before sunset.

So I’ll be running throughout the night with a headlamp in the desert being mindful of running into a cactus, rattlesnake, coyote or javelina. The race will have 4 equal loops (15.5k, 9.6 miles) each. After each loop I can have access to a drop bag which will be helpful to gather my needed Biotest products. Also on each loop there will be a remote aid station but unfortunately no drop bag there. I’ll mostly utilize that aid station for water if needed. Like I said, I’m using it more as a training run, but I think it makes for a very good evaluation challenge. My goal looks to be about 7 hours 30 minutes.

Training for these races is almost exclusively running on the trails. While I enjoy racing the tri’s, my immediate focus this year is in the mountains. With that said, I find myself training 5-6 days a week. Too be honest, I’ve never had a highly formal approach. I have kind of learned to listen to my body and if I feel I can hit it harder, I will. But every day that I am out there is intense. Work keeps me busy, so the weekdays have me running for 75-90 minutes each day. Intensity on these days varies slightly, but I push the throttle pretty hard and on the intensity scale of 1-10 they’re an 8 or 9.

Saturday is always my long run in the mountains and I’ll be out anywhere from 3-5 hours. 4 hours seems to be the average if I’m out solo. While I need a few runs longer than 5 hours to prepare for long 50 mile races (100 mile race next year), that is when I use a few other shorter races as a training ground. For example, tomorrow morning I have a 50k (31 mile) race that is almost all uphill that I’m anticipating will take 6 hours.

As for intensity on these Saturday runs, they’ll be anywhere from a moderate 6 all the way up to a 10 when all energy sources are tapped on race day. Friday is always a day off for recovery and family time. If I destroy my muscles on Saturday then Sunday will be a day off as well.

So am I nervous? Not as much as I am excited! Oh, but my wife is nervous. Ha.


#11

This is fantastic. I’ll also be following this closely. (Xterra triathlon / duathlon / trail ultra marathons here)


#12

Here is the elevation profile for the Flagstaff Endurance Race, aka Ultimate Challenge.


#13

<font size=“3"font color=”#ffa800">JN, let’s start with this protocol and go from there. You should experience a substantial increase in work capacity, overall performance, and recovery rate. I have no doubt that we’ll get all of that done. To make sure that happens, I just need excellent feedback from you.

Plazma™ Protocol for Event
30 Min Prior to Event Finibar™ (2 bars), Indigo-3G® (6 capsules)
15 Min Prior to Event Plazma™ dose (600 ml)
During Event Plazma™ dose (600 ml) every 30 minutes
30 Min Post Event Mag-10® pulse (500 ml)
2 Hours Post Event Mag-10® pulse (500 ml)
Bedtime Mag-10® pulse (500 ml)
Plazma™ Formula Batching
Plazma™ 195 g
Water 1,800 ml Fill Level
Serving Size 600 ml (~20 fl oz)
Servings Made 3
Mixing Instructions

<font size=“3"font color=”#8888888">1. Pour 1,000 ml of cold water into a 2,000 ml Nalgene® bottle.

  1. Pour 195 g of the Plazma™ formula into the cold water, secure the cap on the bottle, and shake vigorously for about 20 seconds, or until thoroughly mixed. If done correctly, the shaking will foam the contents of the bottle.

  2. While the mixture is still foamed, pour in 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon of Biotest®t Intensified Liquid Flavoring and gently swirl the contents until thoroughly mixed. Allow the flavored mixture to clear the foam and form a semi-transparent liquid. The foam should clear within 60 seconds.

  3. Add enough cold water to increase the fill volume to 1,800 ml and gently swirl the contents to mix thoroughly.


#14

Awesome. Thanks for the clear instructions Tim!

This Saturday morning I have a huge training run in the mountains planned. About 25 miles with a ridiculous amount of climbing. I plan to push my perceived limitations, so we’ll see just how unbreakable I really can be! I will let everyone know how it goes.


#15

Yesterday was the first day using the protocol Tim recommended I use. I’ll review those steps along with my impressions of each.

As requested, I took 6 Indigo-3G 30 minutes prior to our run. Turned out to be 35 minutes as one of the guys I was with decided to spend some quality time in the outhouse.

Then I started eating the 2 Finibars right away. On a personal level, I love Finibars. My 2 boys, 5 & 7, love Finibars. I might consider bumping up to 3 Finibars prior to an event as they digest easily for me and the calories (energy) can only help.

15 minutes out, (turned out to be 20) I downed a serving of Plazma. YEAH! A very nice surprise as I hadn’t tried a sip since receiving the shipment. So I walked around a few minutes anticipating that my stomach might be loaded with too much “stuff.” I seemed ok.

I readied my pack with 60 ounces (3 servings) along with a ziplock of 3 additional servings plus a bottle of liquid flavoring. Yes, it looked like I had a bag of cocaine with me. A few jokes were exchange with my buddies. Luckily on race day I’ll have drop bags ready at aid stations with everything ready so I’m not playing chemist.

We took off down the trail and fell into an easy pace. Throughout the first 10 miles, I can’t say there was anything too eventful, but it’s important to note that everything was sitting well in my stomach and I didn’t sense any cramping whatsoever.

After the first 10 miles (about 2 hours), we reached our turnaround and as anticipated we had a well to draw very cold water from and to fill our packs. I quickly prepared another 3 servings of Plazma! Knowing that the return trip would be more uphill than down, I was looking forward to seeing how this turned out.

On the return, we encountered some serious climbing. I was sucking down some Plazma and felt great. My two buddies didn’t look so good. At about our 15 mile mark, they told me to go ahead and they’d meet me at the car. Not requiring much to influence me, I took off! I finished back at the car a little quicker than the outbound. Considering the longer climb on the return trip that’s significant. I reached the car after 20 miles and felt awesome.

I drank some water and hung out under a tree for a while. And then a little longer. Finally after 20 minutes they were there. They were trashed. I started sipping on Mag-10 and looked like I was ready for a Saturday afternoon bbq. Life was good.

A few takeaways:

I felt like I was cheating. Yes, I know I’m not Lance Armstrong with loading up with EPO. But it was kind of ridiculous how much of an impact this had.

For an event that takes me upwards of 12-14 hours, would there be any benefit to a second dose of Indigo-3G during the second half?

Here’s the big question though. How will this protocol impact me on a 50 mile race, tons of climbing, an intense pace and plenty of hot Arizona heat? I’m excited!


#16

I’m following this! Looks awesome


#17

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
I’m following this! Looks awesome[/quote]

Thanks ZJStrope. I’m learning a lot about nutrition and supplementation in this process and while I feel like a bit of a guinea pig, it’s great to see that other’s such as yourself are interested to follow these experiments.

This Saturday I will have a very tough race coming up that pretty much kills even the best endurance athletes on the planet. I am excited to see how the protocol Tim Patterson put together for me impacts my performance. Poor (or even decent) race day nutrition can easily sideline anyone in a long endurance event. After the race is over, Iâ??ll look forward to reporting how things went. We can then review if there needs to be any modifications to the protocol or perhaps it will be perfect as directed.


#18

Over 10,000 feet of accumulated elevation gain over 50 miles here on Saturday. I’m still trying to count how many bottles of Plazma I will need!


#19

You are a madman.

We kinda like that.


#20

Well, the race is over and I survived. Barely. Lots to take away and from the event and I will do my best to focus on how the nutrition and hydration impacted my performance.

On the morning of the event, I awaked at 3:45 to gather all my prepared items, left the cabin and head over to the trailhead. I had prepared all of my Plazma and MAG-10 drinks the night before so that I wouldn?t be dealing with mixing an hour before the race.

Here was my protocol:

4:30am - 6 Indigo 3-G
4:30am - 2 Finibars (Peanut butter!)
4:45am - 1 serving of Plazma in 600ml of cold water
5:00am - 22 servings of Plazma to last me throughout the race.
Post-race - 2 servings of MAG-10.

Of course, carrying 22 servings of Plazma along with enough water to mix is unrealistic. Luckily at each of the aid stations we had drop bags left for us with whatever we had in them. For me, lots of Plazma! Simply, I carried a hydration backpack with me and would fill with ice and Plazma and each of the 5 stops. If there was any leftover Plazma that would not fill the pack, I would chug it on the spot. Usually that would be 1 serving which was perfect.

As the heat progressed after about 15 miles, I started drinking extra water at the aid stations as well. At each of the aid stations, they would ask what food I needed. I would see other runners pounding pretzels, chips and gummy worms like they were at a 7-year olds birthday party. In each instance, I would say I?m all set. By mid-race, they became concerned I wasn?t getting enough in me, but grew curious about was I drinking. I said PLAZMA! That drew all sorts of curiosity so I had plenty of discussions throughout the afternoon.

As for the race, I had a realistic goal of 13 hours and an optimistic goal of 12 hours. Throughout the race I felt great and hydration/nutrition was spot on. There were people dropping from the race left and right because of stomach issues, dehydration, fatigue and a couple of broken bones. About 35 miles into the race I figured based upon my timing my Garmin GPS watch was providing that I was on pace for just over 11 hours. That was pretty good considering I felt like I was running somewhat conservatively (in my opinion). A little bit later, near mile 40, I sense a nasty hot spot growing under my right foot. As I pulled into the final aid station at mile 44, I pulled off my shoe and sock and had an ugly blister. It was painful to walk, much less run. I had a volunteer tape me up as best they could and I pulled on my wet socks and shoes and left. I wasn?t going to quit at this point. Note to self: add a change of socks to a drop bag for mid-way through the race. Losing 1 or 2 minutes to change socks might have saved me an hour. In the end, I finished just over 12 hours. I basically hobbled my way through the final 7 miles. Crashing at the finish line in the tall grass never felt so good.

Despite Tim’s design for me to wait 30 minutes after the event to have a serving of MAG-10, it was gone within 10 minutes. I finished the other serving 10 minutes later and 2 servings before bed. I know it wasn?t exactly as prescribed, but it sure as hell helped.

This race was intense. Lots of incredible competitors from all over the country and it was really hot. More climbing and descending than most can imagine. Oh, and I think someone moved every rock in Arizona and decided to throw them on the trail. Nevertheless, next year I will back and next time there won?t be anything conservative about my pace. I will be looking to finish sub 10 hours. I know I have it in me to be up in the front with the “elite” athletes. I will be looking to practice more with my new protocol Tim Patterson has designed for me. Ultimately, this was my second time using it and the first time in event conditions. I will train much harder and I will get better. I?ve only been testing myself at these extreme distances for a little over a year plus 5 years ago I had colon cancer and had my entire colon removed. I think I have come a long way and look forward to seeing what I am capable of handling.

We are all capable of so much more than we think is possible. When you push beyond your perceived limitations, that is when you will really get to know yourself.