Biotest

Plazma and Diet on a Budget


#1

Hey. As I’m moving from Europe to the US, I can now consider finally buying Biotest. I was doing my own with peptides, minerals and sugars but I guess it’s far inferior to the good formula that everyone here seems to adopt. I’ve been recommended it in a few threads already. I went from very skinny to slim but now I’m stuck around 185lb,6"4. Willing to hit 200 (and still very lean) in a couple of years.

So 2 bottles a month (weight training 3 Times a week) might be good.
It’s going to be a bit more pricey but not even that much. I am on a general diet budget though, for the next 6 months being a trainee at first in my future job. Plus living in SF means prioritizing heh.

So since I’m kind of an IF guy naturally, here is what I’m thinking about as a BASIS that pretty much satisfies my hunger process :

Morning : daily vitamins and fish oil
Lunch : bunch of veggies and a square of dark chocolate
PreWO : Plazma (1 dose), half banana
WO : Plazma (2 doses), half banana
PostWO : 1 banana, couple of servings of another fruit, coconut milk (small can)
Dinner : 1 salad with an avocado and vinaigrette, a couple of whole bio eggs and around 4 cheap egg whites

Calories and macros : 2400kcal / 240carbs-115fat-90proteins. This is low in proteins, fats and calories BUT on a purpose : I’m not sure what to add that fits my macros, goals and my budget. Bacon and buckwheat? I consider my TDEE to be around 3200kcal

Grocery expenditures : around $30/week at the moment.

Thanks a lot


#2

I didn’t add up the calories or macros but the plan looks nowhere close.

There’s no need to add bananas to Plazma. Plazma already provides excellent electrolyte balance, and the carbs have been very carefully optimized. It’s not a matter of omission that it has no fructose. The job is to feed the muscles, not specifically the liver as fructose does.

If you simply like bananas, I’d have the two bananas post workout rather than any pre or during. These alone are plenty of fruit sugar for the day. If wishing more fruit, for example a couple of oranges as well, I’d make it one banana plus the two oranges (for example.)

I would not rely on bacon. It is a very poor fat source, being high in linoleic acid. Beef fat is a far more preferable animal fat, as is dairy fat.

Buckwheat is a fine carb source.

But all this still seems to leave you very short of macros and calories.


#3

As you’re on a tight budget I’d also like to suggest for you some budget-helping options:

Using Surge Recovery 3 scoops (I recommend drinking it in similar pattern to Plazma rather than as post-workout) compared to Plazma 3 scoops reduces your cost by 70%. Yes, it’s substantially not as good, but if as is quite possible you’re making good gains, you could apply the savings towards better food, and switch to still-better workout nutrition only when needed to progress further.

Using MAG-10 two-and-a-half scoops plus Surge Workout Fuel 2 scoops compared to Plazma 3 scoops saves you 44%. Though more costly than the above, it’s an excellent intermediate choice.

Though Plazma is the best workout choice of these, I don’t want to see you compromising your food for the sake of the difference due to tight budget. Your present $30/week food budget is not much.


#4

thanks for the Surge+ Mag-10 suggestion. I was als wondering if Plazma 2 scoops per weight training day would be good ? I still have some quantity of peptides from another brand left, for at least a month, probably 2. I could add 1 dose of these to Plazma at the beginning of the workout, to have as many peptides in my workout drink as in 3 Plazma scoops. My workouts last under an hour.

About the macros, turns out I probably chose the wrong foods on myfitnesspal, which sucks and might explain why I have a hard time gaining weight. Good news is that TDEE isn’t probably as high as 3200kcal a day then, since I was overestimating the whole thing. Probably around the norm I’ve been told, 2800-ish (15 times bodyweight)

Pictured is a more conservative (in terms of calories) base diet version…that’s quite a lot of room left, and enough budget left for meat, and buckwheat, potatoes, yams…


#5

Especially on a budget, I wouldn’t throw out egg yolks. They’re excellent bodybuilding nutrition.

If concerned about them, here are the issues that exist or have been thought to exist:

  1. Cholesterol content, cholesterol having been thought to contribute to risk of heart disease. The studies originally leading to this conclusion have now been shown to have been confounded by other variables, with more recent and careful studies showing no adverse effect of cholesterol consumption on risk of heart disease.

  2. Effect on total blood cholesterol, which is totally different (different substances though the same popular name), with increase in total blood cholesterol having been thought to increase risk of heart disease. That effect has been refuted in the same way as above, and further increased egg consumption does not worsen blood lipid profile.

  3. Saturated fat content. Same story as above.

Now does that mean there is definitely absolutely no issue?

No, a large study did yield data correlating a slight increased risk of heart disease with increased egg consumption, though with the authors acknowledging there could be confounding factors and there might not be actual cause. Mechanistically, metabolism of choline by bacteria in the GI tract can produce trace amounts of a substance promoting atherosclerosis, which depending on the individual may be neutralized by other bacteria; this is true of course of choline from any source, not specifically eggs. Yet choline is an essential nutrient. Not a big deal I’m convinced, except perhaps if evaluating for years and years straight.

I don’t think it’s much of an issue of at all, and there’s certainly no proof that there is. I wouldn’t be throwing the yolks out! (And I don’t!)

Plazma 2 scoops is an excellent protocol also. That would be a great way to cut your cost 33%.


#6

But how about arachidonic acid in egg yolks, fatty meats… I read everything about that, so I stayed conservative on those, thinking about it. Might be overthinking though. Maybe omega 3 eggs are not concerned (and maybe consuming 4-6 omega 3 whole eggs could make me save on fish oil?)


#7

There indeed are writers who speak of arachidonic acid as if it were the devil, but problem is, people eat eggs and do just fine. The evidence for harm from the arachidonic acid just isn’t there.

The only thing anyone in sports or bodybuilding notices is better results!

If desired, Flameout could be added, which surely would counteract any small effect that could exist. But even without the Flameout, I wouldn’t worry about those yolks. And as you are buying Omega-3 eggs, it could well be that a good balance is already there.


#8

By the way, is creatine a good addition to Plazma? Why isnt it in in the first place :slight_smile:


#9

Creatine is plentifully present in red meat, which many people eat. For example, if getting 100 g per day of one’s protein from beef, that’s about 1.7 grams of creatine, which is all that’s needed for full maintenance if already having it fully in the system.

So not everyone needs it added. If you’ve been eating a good amount of red meat, you may be a non-responder to yet further creatine, as you’'d have plenty in your system already.

If not, then creatine is a really inexpensive addition.

Creatine doesn’t need to be taken at time of workout, and doesn’t enhance the workout, and so was no priority for Plazma.


#10

Back on eggs for a moment. Please convince me to not throw out the yolks. I hate doing it, but…

One of my meals is 8-eggs scrambled with only 2-3 yolks. I remove the 5-6 yolks because I feel I need the increased protein (I weigh 280 at 16%) but don’t need the fat.

I experimented with having 3-4 whole eggs and supplementing the meal with protein powder, but that didn’t seem any better than just supplementing with egg whites.

Am I doing the right thing? Is there a better approach? Thoughts?


#11

Because protein can’t really be more than about 40% of calories (depending on total calories and size) so it’s reasonable to look at it is trading the egg fat either for other fats, or for carbs.

What is the fat you’re consuming that you’re preferring to the fat from the eggs, or is that you’re preferring more carbs in place of that fat?


#12

OK, you’re saying that protein should be no more than 40% of total caloric intake for the day, right?

“People” say that to lean out you cut down calories but still keep protein high, around 280+ grams of protein per day. That means about 70g protein per meal + Biotest supps. I almost never get that much. And when I try to get that much with whole eggs, it seems that I go over my suggested calorie limit because of the fat.

But maybe not…

Let me back in to some calculations: If 280 grams protein is 40% of total intake, that equals 1120 calories, which means my suggested caloric intake would be around 2800. Then, I can divide up the remaining 1680 calories among fat and carb. (is there a recommended %?)

10 yolks would be 50g fat = 450 calories. So if I ate 10 whole eggs, I’d still have 1230 calories for carbs and/or more fat.

So, do you think I should eat 10 whole eggs in one meal? Seems like a lot.


#13

Well, if figured as a percentage rather than grams, then it depends also on the total caloric intake. If calories are restricted then as a percentage it might be more. For example, at 1800 cal/day, 300 g/day protein would be 67% of calories. But at 3000 cal/day, the same gram amount would be 40%.

I really meant only to illustrate that most times, if having lean protein sources available, and given that fat intake shouldn’t be restricted too much, usually it’s not necessary to trade off a desirable fat to get more protein; another fat could be traded, or carbs. I probably didn’t put that well.

It does wind up being hard to get 280 g protein per day from only 4 meals if not using any drink source of protein.

From the information, I don’t know that 2800 cal/day would be right for you. It might well be, but that would be from personal experience, and related to size and activity, rather than resulting from protein intake.

I’ve often had 12 eggs per day but I think not more than 6 at a time. Vince Gironda, back in the day, recommended no less than 36 eggs per day (he wanted them to be fertile but that shouldn’t affect the question, I think.)

I don’t think I’d want to eat 10 at a time myself.

Drinks can be great ways to get protein more times per day than just 4. If not wishing to use purchased protein drinks, you could make your own with the eggs, and have one or two such shakes per day. Personally I would do that rather than throw out the yolks.

But now I understand what you were saying: you could get more protein content from a tolerable amount of eggs at one time if throwing out some of the yolks.


#14

Thank you for the detailed reply. I think I’ll try six whole eggs and then supplement with Metabolic Drive, as needed. Fortunately I’m also getting protein from Plazma (3 scoops) and Mag10 (2 servings) per day.

My other typical meals are steelcut oats with 2-3 scoops MD protein or lean beef/chicken with 1/2 cup rice and veggies. Not much fat in these.

Thanks again.


#15

Glad to be of help!


#16

Actually read Today about old school diets. Things like “eat 1 pound of meat a day,6 eggs (whole obv),3 protein shakes”. That makes so much sense, yet we’re always looking for a new way of dieting.

So from today onwards I’m stopping stressing out on all this. Grab your best aminos source, eat 1lb of meat per day, eat 6-12eggs a day. Maybe also adding : veggies and more fats on off days, more carbs on training days, but I believe Plazma +buckwheat is enough*

*unless having a demanding job/training-exercising a lot


#17

That will work fine for you!

Indeed, keeping it simple – when the plan is sound, and your plan is completely sound – will get the job done excellently.


#18

anyway, thanks a lot for your answers, Bill. Looks like I’m gaining so much time thanks to your insights -otherwise I’d have kept experimenting stuff with no real certainties