Biotest

MTOR and its Role in Muscle Hypertrophy


#1

For those who want a better understanding of how and why mTOR, the topic of great discussion in relationship to micro-PA, is a major player in the biochemical process of muscle hypertrophy.

Really really rough reading (for me at least) as with all “scientific” writings, the use of biochemical terms and acronyms are all over the place as if the readers already understand what they are. However, careful, slow reading (with the occasional side track researching on the acronyms) will help one get through it.

In general, the article supports everything Biotest has been touting for micro-PA and how it should be used in the presence of alot of nutrients.

This is really amazing stuff. I’m astounded and really excited about the potential here in relationship to muscle growth.

A caution however: someone noted in another post that upregulating mTOR may be great for muscle building, but there are certain diseases that are kept in check by DOWNREGULATING mTOR. There is most likely some safe tolerance zone that is highly individual to get that muscle building benefit without inducing harm. This is similar to taking just the right amount of exogenous hormones to toe the line between the positive and negative.


#2

Disease? Which disease? You got me scared.


#3

[quote]infected wrote:
Disease? Which disease? You got me scared.[/quote]

x2


#4

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
Someone noted in another post that upregulating mTOR may be great for muscle building, but there are certain diseases that are kept in check by DOWNREGULATING mTOR. There is most likely some safe tolerance zone that is highly individual to get that muscle building benefit without inducing harm. This is similar to taking just the right amount of exogenous hormones to toe the line between the positive and negative.
[/quote]

This is not an issue. Dr. Stout will provide a more thorough explanation, but stimulating mTOR via PA supplementation is not going to be an issue with or affect these disease mechanisms.


#5

I’m guessing it’s similar to how microPA alone does not cause the same effects as microPA + exercise. The mTOR activation would be muscle cell specific?


#6

One of the treatment for the kidney condition that I have is the inhibition of mTor… so if it were dangerous I certainly wouldn’t take it! But even though mTor inhibition is a form of treatment, phosphatidic acid acts as a “survival kit” that actually help with my issue.


#7

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
For those who want a better understanding of how and why mTOR, the topic of great discussion in relationship to micro-PA, is a major player in the biochemical process of muscle hypertrophy.

Really really rough reading (for me at least) as with all “scientific” writings, the use of biochemical terms and acronyms are all over the place as if the readers already understand what they are. However, careful, slow reading (with the occasional side track researching on the acronyms) will help one get through it.

In general, the article supports everything Biotest has been touting for micro-PA and how it should be used in the presence of alot of nutrients.

This is really amazing stuff. I’m astounded and really excited about the potential here in relationship to muscle growth.

A caution however: someone noted in another post that upregulating mTOR may be great for muscle building, but there are certain diseases that are kept in check by DOWNREGULATING mTOR. There is most likely some safe tolerance zone that is highly individual to get that muscle building benefit without inducing harm. This is similar to taking just the right amount of exogenous hormones to toe the line between the positive and negative. [/quote]

Response: I am REALLY glad you brought this up, because, at first this concerned me as well. In 1995, I was approached by a fruit-fly professor that said he didn’t think my creatine research was ethical because based on his hypothesis, creatine causes cancer, muscle cancer to be exact. He based his theory on the fact that creatine is energy, and he believed that increasing the cells energy status would increase the chances for cancer development (what???).

Well, since then over 1000 human studies I have come to the conclusion that this guy was a dumb Fu&$. Excuse my language, but that really stressed me out. LOL! Ok, now I am hearing the same thing with another signaling nutrient, like PA and leucine. So, I consulted with two of the brightest scientist I know, Dr. Mike Roberts and Dr. Jacob Wilson, and this is a summer of what they think.

Resistance training up regulates mTOR in muscle, and circulating growth factors and endocrine factors that make it into the blood (MGF/IGF1-Ea, LIF, etc.); IGF-1 is linked to cancer as well. However, we know resistance training doesnâ??t cause cancer.

Also, Leucine and HMB have been shown to increase mTOR and the result is increased protein synthesis, which places a drain on the cell energy status just like exercise. As a result, there is an elevation in AMP and thus AMPK (stops mTOR) until you eat some carbs. AMPK will keep overstimulation (if such a thing exist in muscle) in check. So the body is amazing at allowing signaling or energy substrates to maximize activation, but always has a way to keep it in check.

The trick is “Always maximizing mTOR” for muscle hypertrophy. PA activates mTOR thus leading to significant increase in MPS which is a very energy-consuming process. Hence, a dual activation keeps things in balance (mTOR goes up first then ATP is consumed for protein synthesis then AMPK is subsequently activated which balances mTOR overstimulation so that the drastic (again if there is such a level) increase in synthesis rates are controlled).

There is debate (by anti-dairy nut-jobs) on whether leucine is linked to cancer (ref below), but we know that low protein (leucine) intake is related to frailty and a loss of a lot of muscle with aging! So, what is the sure-fire bet here, avoid leucine because it may be linked to increased cancer risk or make sure you eat leucine-rich foods because you sure as hell will lose muscle mass if you donâ??t.
http://www.prostate.net/2011/nutrition/amino-acid-in-meat-and-dairy-foods-may-fuel-prostate-cancer/


Finally, In cancer mTOR is upregulated, but cancer is a multi-factorial issue, and much of it (and other diseases) stems from dysregulation in GENES controlling cellular proliferation. In a recent meta-alanlysis on prostate cancer, there is NO mention of mTOR thus not a factor. ( http://www.apocpcontrol.org/paper_file/issue_abs/Volume14_No1/457-61%2012.27%20Xiangyang%20Wang.pdf )

So, you see, if you thing lifting weights and drinking a whey protein shake causes cancer, then I you might want to think twice about supplementing Micro-PA. However, if you want to maximize muscle gains from your training, then I would supplement PA, and MAG-10, etc.


#8

Thanks for the explanation. I took Micro-PA today, I didn’t expect Biotest to sell anything dangerous like that, but some explanations are always welcome. Greatly appreciated :slight_smile:
Does Taking HMB with Micro-PA provides anything good? I have an old box somewhere, that i didn’t finish. Wondering if it can do something, or at least, won’t hurt anything at best.


#9

Is anyone aware of the conversion rate of phosphatidylcholine to phosphatidic acid?


#10

Tim, CT, and Dr. Stout: thank you for your replies.
I am more than satisfied with your response.
Just ordered more Micro-PA.


#11

Epic thread

I shared your initial concerns too, buffd_.

Not anymore!


#12

Thanks for that answer Dr Stout. I mentioned in the livespill on PA that there are some diseases that are kept in check through a down regulation of mTOR. Glad to hear that this is not an issue with PA.


#13

Gentlemen, you visual folks might find this helpful. It might also help explain why everything has to be so complicated in studies and science :wink:

Cell signalling happens to be an big interest of mine.


#14

[quote]gorillavanilla wrote:
Is anyone aware of the conversion rate of phosphatidylcholine to phosphatidic acid?[/quote]

No data that I am aware of, however Dr. Stout would be the one in the specific field who might best have a handle on that range of literature.


#15

When mTor and Ampk are antagonistic in protein synthesis reaction, doesn’t it mean that heavy work to release more mTor through tension and “pump work” with more metabolic stress which leads to more Ampk should be separated in two sessions?