Biotest

Micro-PA with Indigo-3G and MAG-10


#1

Hi Chris S. ,
I have a couple of question:
1- Is it fine to continu the same plan for Indigo-3G with Micro-PA?(6caps a day before trainning)

2-Best results with Micro-PA are with 2 serving of MAG-10 post workout. 2 serving of MAG-10 mean 4 scoops (70g) one shot or split in 2 doses with 30 minutes interval?

So periworkout look like this?
1 hour before trainning: 6caps Micro-PA
45 minutes before trainning: 6caps Indigo-3G
15 minutes before trainning: 1 dose of Plazma
Workout: 1-2 doses of Plazma
15-30 minutes after trainning: 2 serving of MAG-10


#2

Looks like that’s what they’re recommending. A minimum of 2 servings of Plazma (1 scoop per serving) peri workout and 2 servings of MAG-10 (2 scoops per serving) post workout. Are the 2 servings of MAG-10 spaced out or is it one mega dose of MAG-10 post workout?

How long does the duration of effectiveness last for Micro-PA? Is it just for a few hours and is that why it’s recommended to ingest ample amounts of protein after taking it? Or does the active ingredient stay active in the body for a longer period? I’m curious to hear more of the science behind the product. I did buy 3 bottles for a 2 month trial run.


#3

Excellent questions with regards to the timing of the MAG-10 dosages post training.

I have done such “double dose” MAG-10 intakes before, and quite frankly, I didn’t feel like it provided any extra advantage over splitting that dosage into two separate intakes about an hour or more apart. I strongly believe that the body can only absorb and properly utilize only so much protein substrate at a time; i.e. taking more di/tri-peptides at one time may increase the amount of amino material in the blood, but the body simply cannot use all of it at that time for targeted muscle building, etc. In fact, I’m becoming a believer that too much substrate in the blood will result in extra material being converted to glucose or even adipose. Though not significant (my asssumption), the filtration of extra substrate in the blood puts a load on the kidneys and liver.

So, based on my beliefs above, the 2 servings of MAG-10 will be spaced apart by me approximately 1 hour apart.


#4

Buffd I agree with your point on diminishing returns regarding increasing protein intake above a certain threshold in a single dose. It’s just determining that theoretical threshold for each individual. I started using 3 scoops of MAG-10 upon waking and again an hour post workout after reading the following article. Here’s an excerpt from Mike Roussell’s T-Nation article protein pulsing for muscle:

"It bears repeating that the 30-gram protein “rule” is a myth. The body can easily process far more than 30 grams per serving as protein is used in many bodily functions, not just protein synthesis.

In fact, I consider 30 gram to be the minimum protein serving size. This helps ensure you get the most out of the temporal bump in protein synthesis, and more muscular athletes should have even bigger servings. Furthermore, protein synthesis rates have been shown to decline with age so lifters over 40 may require larger doses to get the same bump in protein synthesis as their younger counterparts."

So my next question would be does Micro-PA make the body more efficient at using protein so less is needed to get the same level of protein synthesis or does micro-pa somehow allow the body to assimilate more protein somehow raising that threshold and increasing protein synthesis. I imagine it would be a combination of both. Either way I’m excited about the possible benefits of Micro-PA


#5

You guys should take a look at the recent article on protein pulsing by Mike Russell, PhD. I specifically asked him about the practice of having 2 single serving MAG-10’s post training (1 hr. apart) as opposed to a single double serving. He said in his opinion the double serving would be superior to the 2 single servings. If you look at some of the research he relates in the article, it looks as if approx. 40 grams protein produces the maximum increase in protein synthesis rates. He also points out that protein has very important functions above and beyond protein synthesis, and recommends 30 grams protein minimum per “dose”. This is especially true, Roussell points out, if you are 40 years old or older, as anabolic response to protein dosages declines with age.

Crowbar


#6

Fellas, I used to also believe the “more is better” when it comes to protein intake. And yes, some studies do indicate more is better…sometimes.

But di/tri-peptides and free aminos are different beasts than whole proteins. 40 grams or more of whole proteins will take time to digest and be broken down (even whey isolate) and give a slower steady stream of aminos to the blood. Di/tri-peptides or free aminos take almost no time at all to hit the bloodstream all at once. No…I do not believe the body can assimulate past a certain acute threshold of aminos in the blood.

I go by personal experience and my own blood work to determine what works best for me (because I do not believe any of us are the same and generalities arrived at by most studies do not necessarily apply to all). My resting blood sugar levels INCREASED when I was doing double dosing of MAG-10 (or a similiar product with NO carbs in it) versus when I only pulsed with one serving at a time. THAT tells me double dosing surpassed my own body’s ability to assimulate the aminos and use them for what I want them to be used for: muscle building. Some of it was being converted to sugar.

Now, with Micro-PA, “maybe” the machinery is turned on a bit faster to allow my body to assimulate more substrate; this I will have to see. Starting point as always will be what Biotest recommends, then I’ll start doing slow tweaks to the protocol based on my bloodwork feedback. I am very very curious and interested in what Micro-PA can do.


#7

Sorry for the delay here, PIIG. I wanted to get the best information from Tim Patterson himself.

In short, yes, the same basic plan is great. Tim has added a chart to the Micro-PA article: http://www.t-nation.com/supplements/micro-pa-activates-and-amplifies-hypertrophy I’ll attach it here too.

[quote]PllG wrote:
Hi Chris S. ,
I have a couple of question:
1- Is it fine to continu the same plan for Indigo-3G with Micro-PA?(6caps a day before trainning)

2-Best results with Micro-PA are with 2 serving of MAG-10 post workout. 2 serving of MAG-10 mean 4 scoops (70g) one shot or split in 2 doses with 30 minutes interval?

So periworkout look like this?
1 hour before trainning: 6caps Micro-PA
45 minutes before trainning: 6caps Indigo-3G
15 minutes before trainning: 1 dose of Plazma
Workout: 1-2 doses of Plazma
15-30 minutes after trainning: 2 serving of MAG-10
[/quote]


#8

Wow, 3-4 doses of Plazma per workout, plus the pre-load–so 4-5 doses of Plazma per workout!? So, the suggestion of 1-2 servings of Plazma during the workout is no longer sufficient with the Micro-PA?

Crowbar


#9

[quote]crowbar46 wrote:
Wow, 3-4 doses of Plazma per workout, plus the pre-load–so 4-5 doses of Plazma per workout!? So, the suggestion of 1-2 servings of Plazma during the workout is no longer sufficient with the Micro-PA?

Crowbar[/quote]

As always, you can manipulate the Plazma dosages / servings to your needs - type and length of workout, etc. Using extreme examples, a small female would not need the same amount as, say, Mark Dugdale being trained by John Meadows.


#10

Chris, is a Finibar still part of the peri-workout protocol with Micro PA? Does micro PA need to be taken on an empty stomach? Generally I would put my Finibar and some extra whey an hour pre-workout where the micro PA is


#11

Finibar can definitely be used with <a href="http://www.t-nation.com/store/products/micro-pa"target=“new”>Micro-PA if that’s part of your peri-workout protocol. One of the many great things about Micro-PA is that you can use it with any other Biotest supplement (nothing will interfere), and it doesn’t matter if you take it with food or on an empty stomach. Makes it very easy to fit into your current plan.


#12

Hi Chris,

I’m just thinking through budget considerations for Micro-PA.

Is it more important to load up on peri-workout nutrition with Micro-PA than to pulse MAG-10 throughout the rest of the day?

For example, which would be better:

  1. Layer the recommended doses of Micro-PA, Indigo-3G, Plazma and MAG-10 with no pulses of MAG-10 the rest of the day

  2. Cut 1 dose off of Plazma and 1 dose off of MAG-10 from peri-workout and reincorporate 2 pulses of MAG-10 throughout the rest of the day

Just trying to figure out the initial supplement strategy and I’ll tweak from there.

Thank you!


#13

When in doubt (or when budget rears its ugly head) always prioritize workout nutrition. So we’d suggest #1, but feel free to experiment with both and dial it into your needs. For example, you may could use one less serving of Plazma if it’s an “easy” day in the gym, like a arms-only day vs. a leg day for example. On that day, toss in a pulse of Mag-10 somewhere else in the day.


#14

Hi Chris S.,
I tried to increase my Plazma dose from 2 to 3 but it’s very hard for me to consume those dose without having hard time to digest. On some occasions I also vomit.
So my periworkout is: 6 caps Indigo, 1 FINiBAR, 2 doses of Plazma and 2 MAG-10 pulse post workout.

Should I still try to increase my Plazma dose cause I’m gonna receive my micro-PA shipment soon or I’ll be better to stay with 2 doses of plazma since I have difficulties to manage more doses

Thanks
(I hit the gym at 6:30 am so maybe this is the part of my problem)


#15

PIIG: Two doses of Plazma, one pre-loaded and one during training, is honestly all most people need. Very powerful, especially when using Mag-10 post-training. So your schedule looks good.

Also, the small number of people who have stomach issues with Plazma can usually solve the problem easily by using more water per serving. The amount listed in the label is a minimal and you can add more if needed. That solves it 99% of the time.


#16

Ok thanks. I’ll try to decrease the Plazma concentration by adding more water and I’ll keep you up to date. Your support still keeping me in a motivation state, I appreciate.