Biotest

Micro-PA Thib Training Questions


#1

Some people have started asking training questions in the Built for Bad thread. So I’m starting this one if any of your have training questions to ask me.


#2

CT, Using Micro-PA, there is a need to emphasize the eccentric portion of a movement for at least a small portion of the training session. What do you think of using an old stand by like weight releasers to achieve this overload for 3-4 weeks?


#3

[quote]itisfinished wrote:
CT, Using Micro-PA, there is a need to emphasize the eccentric portion of a movement for at least a small portion of the training session. What do you think of using an old stand by like weight releasers to achieve this overload for 3-4 weeks? [/quote]

You don’t necessarily need an eccentric overload to get the mTor activation. You can get the full benefits by doing a slow eccentric at 60-70% of your max for 6-8 reps. That having been said if someone is more performance oriented, then the weight releasers would work.

I’d start with 2 sets of accentuated eccentric sets with 60-70% for 6-8 rep, then doing the high threshold work and finishing with one set of eccentric overload with the releasers.


#4

Hey Coach,

First of all, thanks for sharing all of your hardships and obstacles you have been facing; its really inspiring to say the least, and it shows a lot about your expertise to show a certain type of vulnerability in that way.

Program Shock: Do the opposite.

^^^
I had in interest in knowing what changes you would make to these workouts you created (the actual “opposite” workouts, not the ones that precede them in the beginning of the article), now with the Micro-PA eccentric training in mind. I understand you do not have to do eccentrics the entire workout, but with this specific structure I am wondering where the eccentrics would be added? and possibly volume increased or decreased? etc.

Thanks for any help. Maybe an example of what you would do for one of the entire workouts, say chest or legs for example, then i can just piece together how you would change the rest of them, that way you dont have type out a bunch of stuff. :slight_smile:


#5

Any tips for women taking Micro-PA?

I’m currently on a high volume power-lifting workout. I’m moving up a weight class (148 to 165) for my next meet at the end of April, so the timing to put on muscle couldn’t be better. I do 5/3/1 weekly progression for working sets, and then basically boring but big for my assistance work.

My stack is as follows:
indigo-3G, Micro-PA & whey protein upon waking (Mag-10 if I’ve got it)
Plazma serving 15 min before workout
1-1.5 servings Plazma during workout (1-2 hours after waking, depending on work schedule).
protein serving after workout, followed by a solid food meal, usually in the next hour.

Here is an average week:
Monday: squats 5/3/1, 5x10

Tuesday: deadlift 5/3/1, 4x10 deficits, 5x2 speed/technique

Wednesday: bench 5/3/1 (all reps paused), 5x2 speed/technique superset with 5x10 db row, assisted dips 5x10 (in the afternoon, I come back and get at least 5x10 close grip bench with the swiss bar with another serving of plazma)

Thursday: Olympic lifting work as a neural charge/recovery day - full cleans, a few sets of power snatch, snatch balance, then pull sleds. All of the bar work is relatively light an more of a focus on range of motion and catching everything cleanly.

Friday: good ol’ husker power metabolic circuit - 3x10, 1 minute rest on 8 exercises, starting with something total body like squats or trap bar, then alternating between upper and lower body. I eat everything in sight on these days.

Saturday: OHP 5/3/1, 5x10 db press, then lots and lots of triceps, rows and shoulders - kind of a “bro” day to take advantage of all of the GH stimulated by the circuit the day before.

Sunday: OFF


#6

[quote]dayne_lathrop wrote:
Hey Coach,

First of all, thanks for sharing all of your hardships and obstacles you have been facing; its really inspiring to say the least, and it shows a lot about your expertise to show a certain type of vulnerability in that way.

Program Shock: Do the opposite.

^^^
I had in interest in knowing what changes you would make to these workouts you created (the actual “opposite” workouts, not the ones that precede them in the beginning of the article), now with the Micro-PA eccentric training in mind. I understand you do not have to do eccentrics the entire workout, but with this specific structure I am wondering where the eccentrics would be added? and possibly volume increased or decreased? etc.

Thanks for any help. Maybe an example of what you would do for one of the entire workouts, say chest or legs for example, then i can just piece together how you would change the rest of them, that way you dont have type out a bunch of stuff. :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Exercise 1 - Slow eccentrics/Normal concentric. 2-3 sets of 6-8 reps.

Exercise 2 - Contrast high threshold work. Sets of 5 reps. First rep is done with a slow eccentric and normal concentric, other 4 reps are normal. 3 sets of 5 reps.

Exercise 3 - Pump work. Pick a technique maximizing the pump (e.g full reps + partials, drop sets, superset, etc.) 3 sets

Exercise 4 - Pump + stretch. Pick an exercise during which the muscle is placed in a stretched position under load. Start the set by holding the stretch for 10 seconds, then do 8-10 reps and finish by holding the stretch position as long as you can tolerate. 2 sets.


#7

[quote]
[/quote]Exercise 4 - Pump + stretch. Pick an exercise during which the muscle is placed in a stretched position under load. Start the set by holding the stretch for 10 seconds, then do 8-10 reps and finish by holding the stretch position as long as you can tolerate. 2 sets.[/quote]

Coach,

Any suggestions for exercises that place the quads and hamstrings in a stretched position under load? I was thinking maybe GHR for glutes?, but not sure what one could use for quads.

Thanks!


#8

Thanks Coach, that really helps! I noticed that the volume itself that you just recommended is a little less than what was previously described for that particular program… I am guessing this is because the added stress from the eccentric emphasis?


#9

I’ve been following the layering approach for over a year now, and though I’ve tried other variations like the density setup, my best results came from the original plan of max ramp, clusters, hdl. I want to go back to this now with Micro PA, and just wondering if there are any things I should modify or focus on other than doing 2-3 sets of eccentric focused lifting during the max ramp.

My set up is currently lifting Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri, doing Press (rotate one of SDBP, SIBP, Standing Military), SGHP, Press (a different exercise than Mon), and Squat. Any thoughts or modifications you might make to best take advantage of Micro PA?


#10

[quote]ggarrett wrote:

[quote]
[/quote]Exercise 4 - Pump + stretch. Pick an exercise during which the muscle is placed in a stretched position under load. Start the set by holding the stretch for 10 seconds, then do 8-10 reps and finish by holding the stretch position as long as you can tolerate. 2 sets.[/quote]

Coach,

Any suggestions for exercises that place the quads and hamstrings in a stretched position under load? I was thinking maybe GHR for glutes?, but not sure what one could use for quads.

Thanks![/quote]

Any form of full range squatting place the quads under stretch, you don’t need to overthink this too much and look for something exotic.

Romanian deads work for hamstring stretch


#11

[quote]dayne_lathrop wrote:
Thanks Coach, that really helps! I noticed that the volume itself that you just recommended is a little less than what was previously described for that particular program… I am guessing this is because the added stress from the eccentric emphasis?[/quote]

Well yes but no.

Yes it’s because of the eccentric focus, but not because it’s more stressful… it isn’t (not at that level of intensity) but rather because accentuating the eccentric accomplishes maximum mTor activation with less volume. So you need less volume to get maximum stimulation.


#12

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]dayne_lathrop wrote:
Hey Coach,

First of all, thanks for sharing all of your hardships and obstacles you have been facing; its really inspiring to say the least, and it shows a lot about your expertise to show a certain type of vulnerability in that way.

Program Shock: Do the opposite.

^^^
I had in interest in knowing what changes you would make to these workouts you created (the actual “opposite” workouts, not the ones that precede them in the beginning of the article), now with the Micro-PA eccentric training in mind. I understand you do not have to do eccentrics the entire workout, but with this specific structure I am wondering where the eccentrics would be added? and possibly volume increased or decreased? etc.

Thanks for any help. Maybe an example of what you would do for one of the entire workouts, say chest or legs for example, then i can just piece together how you would change the rest of them, that way you dont have type out a bunch of stuff. :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Exercise 1 - Slow eccentrics/Normal concentric. 2-3 sets of 6-8 reps.

Exercise 2 - Contrast high threshold work. Sets of 5 reps. First rep is done with a slow eccentric and normal concentric, other 4 reps are normal. 3 sets of 5 reps.

Exercise 3 - Pump work. Pick a technique maximizing the pump (e.g full reps + partials, drop sets, superset, etc.) 3 sets

Exercise 4 - Pump + stretch. Pick an exercise during which the muscle is placed in a stretched position under load. Start the set by holding the stretch for 10 seconds, then do 8-10 reps and finish by holding the stretch position as long as you can tolerate. 2 sets.[/quote]

Coach is that exercise order written in stone in order to work optimally or can I tweak the order a bit?

I was thinking start off with ramping(1-3RM) then

  1. do a density portion as in the layers approach (or something like in Built for Bad ie 30 reps in 7-8 mins with 80%)
  2. then eccentric sets
    then 3 and 4 as is.

#13

[quote]as wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]dayne_lathrop wrote:
Hey Coach,

First of all, thanks for sharing all of your hardships and obstacles you have been facing; its really inspiring to say the least, and it shows a lot about your expertise to show a certain type of vulnerability in that way.

Program Shock: Do the opposite.

^^^
I had in interest in knowing what changes you would make to these workouts you created (the actual “opposite” workouts, not the ones that precede them in the beginning of the article), now with the Micro-PA eccentric training in mind. I understand you do not have to do eccentrics the entire workout, but with this specific structure I am wondering where the eccentrics would be added? and possibly volume increased or decreased? etc.

Thanks for any help. Maybe an example of what you would do for one of the entire workouts, say chest or legs for example, then i can just piece together how you would change the rest of them, that way you dont have type out a bunch of stuff. :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Exercise 1 - Slow eccentrics/Normal concentric. 2-3 sets of 6-8 reps.

Exercise 2 - Contrast high threshold work. Sets of 5 reps. First rep is done with a slow eccentric and normal concentric, other 4 reps are normal. 3 sets of 5 reps.

Exercise 3 - Pump work. Pick a technique maximizing the pump (e.g full reps + partials, drop sets, superset, etc.) 3 sets

Exercise 4 - Pump + stretch. Pick an exercise during which the muscle is placed in a stretched position under load. Start the set by holding the stretch for 10 seconds, then do 8-10 reps and finish by holding the stretch position as long as you can tolerate. 2 sets.[/quote]

Coach is that exercise order written in stone in order to work optimally or can I tweak the order a bit?

I was thinking start off with ramping(1-3RM) then

  1. do a density portion as in the layers approach (or something like in Built for Bad ie 30 reps in 7-8 mins with 80%)
  2. then eccentric sets
    then 3 and 4 as is.
    [/quote]

Yes the order is important… very important. You have to start with the eccentric to activate mTor optimally as soon as possible in the workout.

The order I gave was for the “opposite workout”, not for the layers. But with the layers the eccentric would still have to be done first, then high threshold work (I have some different types of high threshold work to maximize the benefits from Micro-PA) then “pump work”.

THE ORDER IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT

The goal is not to do a collection of exercises/methods but to create a precise physiological effect to maximize gains. The order of exercises and methods is AT LEAST as important as other variables such as exercise selection, sets, reps and load. Those who do not take it into account when planning a workout aren’t worthy of confidence IMHO.


#14

Hey thib! I know you obviously don’t have to make this decision, but if you could only choose micro pa or indigo what would you go with? Has either one given you more up front/noticeable or tangible results? I could only afford to be running one constantly, or even alternate them from month to month!


#15

[quote]Mr. AWEstomy wrote:
Hey thib! I know you obviously don’t have to make this decision, but if you could only choose micro pa or indigo what would you go with? Has either one given you more up front/noticeable or tangible results? I could only afford to be running one constantly, or even alternate them from month to month![/quote]

I don’t like that question because regardless of what my answer is, one great supplement would lose some of it’s luster not to mention that their effects add up in a 1+1=3 fashion.

What I noticed PERSONALLY is that I-3G has two types of effects: short term and long term. Meaning that it’s first benefit is fixing an inflammation problem in the fat cells. Fixing that issue, healing the fat cells in a way naturally re-program the body toward making the fat cells less likely to hog nutrients (stored as fat) which of course makes more nutrients go to the muscles.

I believe that once the inflammation problem is fixed you will have very long lasting benefits even if you were to stop I-3G. Depending on the severity of your problem it might take 8 to 18 weeks to fix that issue.

Then you have a continuing benefit from I-3G which is to make the MUSCLES more insulin-sensitive, which means that you make the muscles more responsive to absorbing nutrients. That benefit (specific insulin sensitivity) will only last while you are still taking I-3G. I mean, the muscles WILL be more responsive to insulin just by healing the fat cells but to get the biggest impact in nutrients absorption by the muscles you need to use I-3G even at a maintenance dose.

So if you have been on I-3G for a while (let’s say 3-4 months) your fat cell inflammation problem is probably fixed or significantly improved which means that even if you stopped, you will still be in a physiological state that favors sending nutrients to the muscles instead of fat. You wont get the full effect, but you’ll still be better off than before you took it.

So in that regard, if someone can only afford one of those two great supplements AND has been on I-3G for a while, investing in Micro-PA would be my choice.


#16

[quote]Mr. AWEstomy wrote:
Hey thib! I know you obviously don’t have to make this decision, but if you could only choose micro pa or indigo what would you go with? Has either one given you more up front/noticeable or tangible results? I could only afford to be running one constantly, or even alternate them from month to month![/quote]

BTW alternating both would be the worst possible solution.


#17

Thanks. What do you think of alternating on more of a long term basis. Say, like you mention, using indigo for 3-4 moths, then going on a lengthier use of only mircro pa (half a year as an example), then running indigo again for 3-4 months to assure you keep getting that benefit of fixing the fat cells/decreasing inflammation.


#18

Christian I have been doing a form of layers set up like this.

(1) 3 sets of eccentric 6-8 reps+slow eccentric band work as well for the muscle being worked in between these sets.
(2) ramp to my 3rm reg tempo sets.
(3) density sets:10x3
(4) 3 sets of pump work 6-8 reps+band work to finish.

By band work I mean for chest lets say.I use a medium strength band and do chest fly’s and focus on the pump and squeeze.I like using bands In this way cause I can really feel the muscle being worked.I like doing the band work along with the eccentric sets cause It really wakes up the muscle that I’m about to train.

So my question is do you think this set up is on track for use with Micro-PA.You said you had some different high threshold work that you’ve been doing for Micro-PA.Should the density work be changed In any way,or anything for that matter.Thanks for your time Christian.


#19

[quote]Mr. AWEstomy wrote:
Thanks. What do you think of alternating on more of a long term basis. Say, like you mention, using indigo for 3-4 moths, then going on a lengthier use of only mircro pa (half a year as an example), then running indigo again for 3-4 months to assure you keep getting that benefit of fixing the fat cells/decreasing inflammation. [/quote]

Also a bad idea. Honestly if you want to maximize muscle growth Micro-PA is the best legal product available at this point. I wouldn’t want to stop using it.


#20

CT, I am doing frequency work at the tail end of my workouts (after 3rm and density layer) 30 dips and 30 chin ups…
My question is should I accentuate the eccentric (2-3 seconds?) Or do you think it will be too much considering they are being done 5 to 6 times a week?