Biotest

Micro-PA and LBM Maintenance


#1

I was wondering if Micro-PA would be effective for maintaining LBM during periods of caloric restriction (or even adding a little muscle)?

Thanks,

Crowbar


#2

[quote]crowbar46 wrote:
I was wondering if Micro-PA would be effective for maintaining LBM during periods of caloric restriction (or even adding a little muscle)?

Thanks,

Crowbar[/quote]

Crow, I think that’s were Micro-PA will REALLY shine.
Hope Tim or one of the gang chime in here and give us the info on that.


#3

I’m thinking the opposite is true and Micro-PA would be more effective when energy and nutrient intake are high, not low:

Below, I’ve pasted a section from a nice review paper on mTOR: Nat Rev Mol Cell Biol. 2011 January ; 12(1): 21?35. doi:10.1038/nrm3025

This paper suggests that nutrients, growth factors, energy, and stress are all inputs into the regulation of the mTOR pathway.

Chemical inhibitors of glycolysis and mitochondrial function suppress mTORC1 activity, indicating that mTORC1 senses cellular energy8, 92. Energy sensing by mTORC1 is critical, because mTORC1-driven growth processes consume a large fraction of cellular energy, and thus could be deleterious to starving cells.

Glycolysis and mitochondrial respiration convert nutrients into energy, stored in the form of ATP, and cellular ATP quickly drops upon nutrient deprivation. The mTORC1 pathway indirectly senses low ATP, via a mechanism centered on the AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK) (reviewed in93) (FIG.2e). Both AMP and ATP are allosteric regulators of AMPK: when the AMP:ATP ratio increases, AMPK phosphorylates TSC1/2, possibly stimulating its GAP activity toward Rheb89, 94, 95. Moreover, AMPK phosphorylates raptor, causing its binding to 14-3-3, which leads to the inhibition of mTORC1 through allosteric mechanisms96.


#4

Edit - double post.

Here’s the direct link to that paper I mentioned above if you’re interested in checking it out:


#5

[quote]Serge A. Storms wrote:
Edit - double post.

Here’s the direct link to that paper I mentioned above if you’re interested in checking it out:

[/quote]

Interesting. Hmm. I was looking at it this morning. How would you stack that with Indigo-3G? Indigo-3G is in the blood for at least 6 hours, so that can even be taken before Micro-PA. I feel like Indigo-3G takes at least 60 minutes to fully kick in. I actually feel different when I know its ‘absorbed’. I wonder how long Micro-PA is in the blood for?


#6

I imagine if one was still using high carb peri-workout drinks while restricting calories throughout the rest of the day it would work pretty well. That would allow you to maximize the effects of training even with calories very low outside of that small window.

On a related note: Micro-PA + Indigo-3G + Carbolin 19?


#7

According to Tim’s article, 7 hours.

[quote]annakolev wrote:

[quote]Serge A. Storms wrote:
Edit - double post.

Here’s the direct link to that paper I mentioned above if you’re interested in checking it out:

[/quote]

Interesting. Hmm. I was looking at it this morning. How would you stack that with Indigo? Indigo is in the blood for at least 6 hours, so that can even be taken before Micro. I feel like Indigo takes at least 60 minutes to fully kick in. I actually feel different when I know its ‘absorbed’. I wonder how long Micro is in the blood for?[/quote]


#8

[quote]BiP wrote:

On a related note: Micro-PA + Indigo-3G + Carbolin 19?[/quote]

This is the route I’m trying


#9

[quote]cally wrote:

[quote]BiP wrote:

On a related note: Micro-PA + Indigo-3G + Carbolin 19?[/quote]

This is the route I’m trying[/quote]

So Plazma and MAG-10 is also in the mix


#10

[quote]gonzo25 wrote:

[quote]cally wrote:

[quote]BiP wrote:

On a related note: Micro-PA + Indigo-3G + Carbolin 19?[/quote]

This is the route I’m trying[/quote]

So Plazma and MAG-10 is also in the mix[/quote]

Yep correct. Taking out a loan to do so ha


#11

It makes alot of sense that proper nutrition (adequate protein substrate, especially leucine) should be taken with a substance that activates mTOR. Leucine is also an activator of mTOR, and the two combined (Micro-PA and leucine) would work together to amplify the mTOR signal for muscle protein synthesis.

So, if you have this wonderful signal to “make muscle”, and you don’t have any bricks around to construct it, nothing will happen. The bricks and motar are necessary to optimize the process.


#12

Thanks for all the replies, guys. There’s a lot to think about. It does seem to me that some of the energy substrate needed to build muscle could be supplied by body fat IF you have adequate intake of protein and leucine: or I should say, that body fat can supply energy (on a hypo-caloric diet), sparing other substrates such as carbs, protein, and leucine for muscle building. I think this is especially true if you have over 10% body fat.

I’ll also be using Indigo, Carbolin 19, and Micro-PA; however, I’ll be throwing in another twist–accentuated eccentric training. The combination of the Micro-PA and accentuated eccentric training should provide a powerful stimulus for muscle growth, as the eccentric phase of training is a direct stimulator of the mTOR pathway.

For now I’ll be following a hyper-caloric intake, but will switch to CT’s Built For Bad strength circuits (with reduced caloric intake) as spring approaches in order to lean out.

Crowbar


#13

[quote]BiP wrote:
I imagine if one was still using high carb peri-workout drinks while restricting calories throughout the rest of the day it would work pretty well. That would allow you to maximize the effects of training even with calories very low outside of that small window.

On a related note: Micro-PA + Indigo-3G + Carbolin 19?[/quote]

WHY would you restrict your calories like that? You’re driving yourself straight into metabolic damage! I firmly believe that a guy should never go below 2k bare minimum, that’s without working out. You need to fuel your workouts with real food too, not just throw plasma and finibars at your body while working out and then go ‘well, that’s it for the day’. If you’re looking for fat loss, and I assume you are since you’re so severely restricting your calories, why not do the fat loss/hypertrophy workout plan outlined by Thibs? That will cut you real fastâ?¦.


#14

Thank you!!! really good to know :slight_smile:

[quote]infected wrote:
According to Tim’s article, 7 hours.

[quote]annakolev wrote:

[quote]Serge A. Storms wrote:
Edit - double post.

Here’s the direct link to that paper I mentioned above if you’re interested in checking it out:

[/quote]

Interesting. Hmm. I was looking at it this morning. How would you stack that with Indigo? Indigo is in the blood for at least 6 hours, so that can even be taken before Micro. I feel like Indigo takes at least 60 minutes to fully kick in. I actually feel different when I know its ‘absorbed’. I wonder how long Micro is in the blood for?[/quote]
[/quote]


#15

[quote]annakolev wrote:

[quote]BiP wrote:
I imagine if one was still using high carb peri-workout drinks while restricting calories throughout the rest of the day it would work pretty well. That would allow you to maximize the effects of training even with calories very low outside of that small window.

On a related note: Micro-PA + Indigo-3G + Carbolin 19?[/quote]

WHY would you restrict your calories like that? You’re driving yourself straight into metabolic damage! I firmly believe that a guy should never go below 2k bare minimum, that’s without working out. You need to fuel your workouts with real food too, not just throw plasma and finibars at your body while working out and then go ‘well, that’s it for the day’. If you’re looking for fat loss, and I assume you are since you’re so severely restricting your calories, why not do the fat loss/hypertrophy workout plan outlined by Thibs? That will cut you real fastâ?¦.[/quote]

I’m not saying I’m doing this, I clearly said “IF one was” :slight_smile:

I do agree that severely limiting calories can be a bad idea, and going below 2k (at least for an extended period) wouldn’t work well. Restricting calories does not mean that one is starving for the rest of the day. It might for example mean having 2/3 or more of daily carbs around training.

And I have done a variation of the fat loss/hypertrophy plan from the Indigo-3G workouts a loooong time ago. Can’t say I did it before it was cool because it was very much cool back then in the early Indigo days :wink: It worked, and I was probably eating close to 4k calories then.


#16

Going below 2k isn’t a big deal if you have proper refeeds and proper peri-workout nutrition.


#17

[quote]TRU76 wrote:
Going below 2k isn’t a big deal if you have proper refeeds and proper peri-workout nutrition. [/quote]

True. (Pulse fast? :slight_smile: ), although doing it every day with no refeed would… not be fun. Even with proper peri and refeeds 2k is very little for me and make it hard to function.


#18

[quote]BiP wrote:
I imagine if one was still using high carb peri-workout drinks while restricting calories throughout the rest of the day it would work pretty well. That would allow you to maximize the effects of training even with calories very low outside of that small window.

On a related note: Micro-PA + Indigo-3G + Carbolin 19?[/quote]

I really like the Carbolin 19( @3x2caps per day) + Indigo-3G stack already. Adding Micro-PA will amplify it and be very synergistic IMHO. Looking forward to trying it.


#19

I’ve started Carbolin 19 recently, but at a lower dose (2 caps pre-workout, 1 cap later). Been using Indigo-3G for a while. I might be able to fit all 3 for a short while, but not going to use Micro-PA for at least another month - got to get back from a 1 month break, so I should be making quick gains for the first few weeks anyway. I’ll throw it in them, plus plenty of food.


#20

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:

So, if you have this wonderful signal to “make muscle”, and you don’t have any bricks around to construct it, nothing will happen. The bricks and motar are necessary to optimize the process. [/quote]

I remember a quote from something TC wrote many many years ago about how you need to “make hay when the sun’s shining”. A great analogy that I’ve repeated quite often when talking supps and nutrition, that I feel fits perfectly in discussing the new product.

S