MAG-10/Plazma vs. Surge Recovery and Metabolic Drive


A little background. I am a 48 year old man with a bad shoulder. 5’5 137# and 15-16% bodyfat. I got back in the gym in late January at 150# and 25% bodyfat. I have been using Surge Recovery, Metabolic Drive, Flameout and FA-3. The last couple of weeks I seem to have stalled.

I would like to drop another 5-6% bodyfat and completely eliminate the lovehandles and continue to gain muscle. I am not a serious body-builder but I do go to the gym 5-6 days a week. I just don’t want to be a pot-bellied softie like most guys my age. My goal is to be athletically fit, not compete.

Due to my schedule, I work out first thing in the morning and have never eaten breakfast since high school. All that being said, I am wondering if I need to switch supplements? I have read about protein pulsing and frankly I already do some of that. I generally take in at least 20 grams of protein every 2-3 hours, but with Metabolic Drive and bars (Surge recovery right after workout). I have also read that it is now understood that pre-loading protein BEFORE workouts is considered better.

Can you please give me a suggestion of whether I should continue what I’m doing or what adjustments I should make?


Chris will answer, but here is my take.

I’m 48 and Plazma/MAG-10 is a god send.

That is all


Congrats on your progress so far, Bill!

First things first, you might need a new stimulus in the gym - a new plan to push you harder. Tons of free plans here at T Nation.

Now, that stuff aside, we do see a few things you could improve. First, weight training in a fasted state greatly reduces (and some say even kills) muscle gains. And fasted cardio leads to muscle loss along with the fat loss. Not good as the metabolism takes a hit. So one improvement we have in mind for you would solve two issues. The first is the fasted training problem, and the second is getting you up to speed on the best peri-workout supplement choice. Surge Recovery is fine, but it’s only for post-workout. We now know that pre and intra workout nutrition is even better. So we suggest you upgrade to <a href=""target=“new”>Plazma. One serving is pre-loaded about 15 minutes before you train, so that takes care of the fasted lifting problem. Plus it’s just a newer, far more advanced way to take care of workout nutrition. Now, during your weight training workout, have 1-2 more servings of Plazma. You’ll notice a huge difference not only in workout performance but also progress in muscle gains and fat loss.

To properly protein pulse, it can’t be done with solid foods or regular protein powders. You need special proteins and carbs, and they’re only found in <a href=""target=“new”>MAG-10. Mag-10 is also perfect for post-workout when you’re using Plazma before and during. And it’s great for pre and during cardio/conditioning work to prevent catabolism and lead to great fat loss.

Metabolic Drive is great as a meal replacement or to add protein to other meals or foods (I mix a scoop into oatmeal.) But it’s not a workout drink like Plazma and doesn’t give you the “protein pulse” effect like Mag-10.

So really, just subbing in Plazma and Mag-10 will get you back to making progress. Hope that helps.


Understood and thanks for responding! One thing I realized after sending my original post is that I was taking BCAA before workouts but ran out and haven’t gotten any more. Thinking back, that was right about the same time that my “stall” began. I’m starting to think they are related, especially after your comments about “fasted training”. So, my next question is whether I should resume BCAA with the Plazma? Also, will I still need the Flameout and FA3?

Perhaps I have misunderstood, but I thought protein pulsing was taking a LARGE dose of protein at a time. According to the label, MAG-10 has the same amount of protein (20gms) as Metabolic Drive. Can you please educate me on why it is better? Would I completely eliminate Surge Recovery (which I drink on my way out of the gym)?

I can see where the Plazma would take care of the immediate needs for replenishing the muscles that were just torn down, so I guess waiting an hour wouldn’t be such a big deal as without it but the truth is…I really LIKE the taste of Surge Recovery, so I’ll miss it if I need to remove it from the equation.

The Plazma and MAG-10 say they are for ELITE athletes who are training at a high level. As I mentioned in my original post, I’m not an elite athlete and with my bad shoulder I can’t even do flat bench. I’m just an old guy trying to stay fit (but due to some OCD tendencies, doing it just a little bit more than casually). In my situation, would it be stupid to take a dose of Plazma pre-workout, another during workout followed by Surge Recovery immediately upon finishing workout and then MAG-10 an hour after workout and then (purely to save cost) Metabolic Drive between meals? You won’t hurt my feelings if you say it would be.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer questions from the less-informed. I’ve tried to educate myself but there is so much out there, my head is exploding so you are a tremendous resource.

  1. There’s no need to use additional BCAA when using Plazma.

  2. The type of protein in Mag-10 is comprised of a unique di- and tripeptide complex that’s transported directly into the bloodstream. And the particular di-/tripeptide mixture found in Mag-10 produces effects in muscle that go far beyond simple amino acids from other protein sources. Peptide structures have biological activities beyond regular amino acids. The peptide structures in Mag-10 also have biological activities above and beyond regular amino acids, making it a totally different animal. Only 20 grams of protein from Mag-10 stimulates protein synthesis, as well as other muscle building and recovery effects, to a far greater degree than what you would get from 100s of grams of conventional protein. This is why we often say that “a gram of protein isn’t a gram of protein.” Much different effect on the body depending on where it’s coming from. And as we mentioned, solid foods just can’t simulate this type of supplemental protein.

  3. If using Plazma and Mag-10 for peri-workout (before, during and after), then there’s no need for the Surge supplements.

  4. The plan you mentioned is fine, but not optimal. If budget is an issue, it’s much better to have 1 serving of Plazma pre-training, 1 serving during, then a pulse of Mag-10 after. Nothing else is required. Our pro bodybuilders and pro athletes use the same plan, just more servings. That 2 Plazma servings + 1 Mag-10 serving plan is probably less expensive than your plan. Of course, if you just like one supplement over another, then Surge Recovery is fine. It’s just hard for us not to recommend the best to anyone training hard, and that’s Plazma and Mag-10.


OK, thanks. That’s what I thought but man, I’m gonna miss my morning chocolate shake!
So what about the FA3 and Flameout? still needed or no?

Would you recommend Idigo3G to get rid of those last few percentages of bodyfat or since I’m not in a crisis, just keep working it off?
Anything else I should add to my order or is Plazma and MAG-10 so complete that I’m fine with just them?
Thanks again!!!


Flameout and FA3 can be used with any plan or supplement program since they’re just healthy fatty acid supplements. The only “rule” to keep in mind is that you don’t want to use them at the same time as peri-workout nutrition supplements, as the fats could slow down or hamper the impact from the workout supps. I just take my Flameout at night with dinner myself.

I really think that upgrading your workout nutrition supplements and perhaps pulsing in a dose of Mag-10 between a couple of meals is all you’re going need to get your progress going again. There’s always other things to add that compliment workout supplements, but that’s the place to start. If I had to recommend one addition, it would indeed be Indigo-3G. It’s about more than fat loss; it’s about getting your body to partition nutrients toward muscle gain instead of fat storage. It’s my personal favorite supplement to use besides workout nutrition supps.