Biotest

MAG-10 Intra Workout?


#1

Chris,

I’d really appreciate your opinion on this. I’ve recently started on MAG-10 and Indigo-3g for the first time. I’ve been dying to try out these along with Plazma, but I could not afford all 3. I went with 2 bottles of I3G and 2 tubs of MAG-10. I have been using Intra-MD by Prime Nutrition intra workout as a carb source since I can’t afford the Plazma protocol.

However, this product does not have the di/tri-peptides that Plazma and MAG-10 provide. Based on the MAG-10 and and Intra-MD ingredient profiles, I was wondering if mixing a pulse of MAG-10 in with the Intra-MD to consume intra-workout would be beneficial and without negative interference of the ingredients.

Or, would a MAG-10 pulse pre-workout be more beneficial than that combination? I’ve been doing the recommended single MAG-10 pulse 1hr post-workout, with another pulse 1hr after that on the most difficult workout days. I’ve read the I3G carb recommendations and have that locked down - lots of rice sources, sweet potatoes, HBCD, etc…

Protein sources aside from MAG-10 have been Metabolic Drive bars, eggs, nuts, and some whey/casein in with a meal once a day, and then again before bed, since I can’t keep up with that much MAG-10 financially. I just want to make the most of what I have/can afford and would appreciate your advice.

Thanks!


#2

Given the weights of the scoops and in the ingredients we are after (The HBCD’s and aminos) It takes about 2 scoops of Intra-MD to “equal” about 1 scoop of PLAZMA, if we can even use that term because they do in fact use different amino sources, of which PLAZMA is using di and tri peptides of the entire 20 amino acid spectrum, Intra-MD is only using the 9 EAA’s.

After a quick perusal, The cheapest source on the web for Intra-MD is about $1.50/scoop… And at the current price of PLAZMA with the 15% discount is 2.97 per scoop.

Lets call it 1.5 scoops to “equal” one serving of PLAZMA. That puts you at $2.25 per serving, then adding in a scoop of MAG-10 is $1.06 … Putting you at $3.31 per serving. I’m not really sure how much you are saving here after adding in another scoop of MAG-10.

If you are committed to using an intra workout drink, I’d probably stick with the PLAZMA, as even if you didnt add the MAG-10 you are “saving” quarters, not dollars.

I’ve found with Biotest products trying to make a “poor mans version” typically doesn’t pan out. They seem expensive until you crunch the numbers and find out everyone else’s products are (sometimes wildly) under dosed in comparison.


#3

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Given the weights of the scoops and in the ingredients we are after (The HBCD’s and aminos) It takes about 2 scoops of Intra-MD to “equal” about 1 scoop of PLAZMA, if we can even use that term because they do in fact use different amino sources, of which PLAZMA is using di and tri peptides of the entire 20 amino acid spectrum, Intra-MD is only using the 9 EAA’s.

After a quick perusal, The cheapest source on the web for Intra-MD is about $1.50/scoop… And at the current price of PLAZMA with the 15% discount is 2.97 per scoop.

Lets call it 1.5 scoops to “equal” one serving of PLAZMA. That puts you at $2.25 per serving, then adding in a scoop of Mag-10 is $1.06 … Putting you at $3.31 per serving. I’m not really sure how much you are saving here after adding in another scoop of Mag-10.

If you are committed to using an intra workout drink, I’d probably stick with the PLAZMA, as even if you didnt add the Mag-10 you are “saving” quarters, not dollars.

I’ve found with Biotest products trying to make a “poor mans version” typically doesn’t pan out. They seem expensive until you crunch the numbers and find out everyone else’s products are (sometimes wildly) under dosed in comparison.
[/quote]

Great post Lonnie… yeah, people rarely take the time to estimate “cost per equivalent ingredient dose”… not to mention that no product uses all the high quality ingredients of what Biotest uses. I find it funny when people try to make up equivalent products by mixing several cheap products… they feel like they are “beating the system” while in reality it’s only an illusion.

I know for a fact that Biotest has very low profit margins on their products and sell only on the internet to save the middleman to keep everything as affordable as humanly possible. With the ingredients in the each product it is IMPOSSIBLE to sell them at a lesser cost. So if someone finds a less expensive option it’s either that the math doesn’t pan out (as Lonnie pointed out) and in that case the savings are just an illusion or that the product uses inferior ingredients that will be less expensive.


#4

Lonnie and CT,

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the input. I understand that intra-md and plazma aren’t equivalent nor comparable. And you’re right, I wouldn’t be saving much per serving, but I feel I would go through Plazma much quicker because I’d want to follow the protocol as closely as possible to promote the best results. For the record, I haven’t mixed MAG-10 with my intra drink before; just an idea that popped up that I wanted some quality opinions on.

CT-I’m currently going through the hypertrophy training programs you put together for the Indigo Project and I love it so far. HFST is a way I haven’t trained before but it’s a great change for me. With that said, I may drop the I3G once I run out and try the Plazma and MAG-10 protocol. I’m really looking to put on size while still looking lean. I’ve got a month’s worth of I3G now. If I can only keep up with that and MAG-10 or Plazma and MAG-10 would you recommend starting with the latter once I run out of I3G, or sticking with my current combo?
Thanks again guys, I really value your input on this.


#5

Good info above. I’ll add that now that <a href="http://www.t-nation.com/store/products/surge-workout-fuel"target=“new”>Surge Workout Fuel has been updated and ramped up, it’s darn close to Plazma, but less costly. And certainly more effective than double dosing a knockoff product of subpar quality. And since one serving of Surge Workout Fuel covers pre, intra and post workout, it takes care of the whole peri-workout period. Something to consider.


#6

Thanks for chiming in, Chris. I’m a college kid on a budget trying to Optimize my training and learn more about peri-workout nutrition and timing. I think SWF may be the answer here - I just wasn’t sure how it compared to Plazma because I noticed how much additional protein intake Plazma provides, though the rest of the ingredient profile is very similar. Thanks again.


#7

Chris, that is something I have been very curious about as well. Given that Surge Workout Fuel is essentially just the HBCD and the other goodies (electrolytes, etc…) without the di and tri peptides (no aminos or proteins at all as far as I can tell) is that what we are after mostly, and are the amino’s very much secondary?

Seems like Surge Workout Fuel + MAG-10 would really be the “poor mans Plazma” if you had to make one. I havent done the math here though so I dont even know how much that would save.


#8

Surge Workout Fuel does have leucine. And I doubt there’s any savings, only screwing up these very precise formulas.


#9

I decided to go for it and order some Plazma… after weighing out prices and pros and cons of other options, I couldn’t resist. I’m psyched to try it out and see how it affects my training sessions. Thanks again for the input, guys.


#10

Hey guys,

So I’ve only had Plazma for a couple days, but I can already tell that Plazma pre/intra with MAG-10 post-workout is an unbeatable combination - best recovery to date.

Question about Plazma dosage/dilution: the label recommends 1,500mL for 3 doses. I have been using 2 doses (for budget reasons) - 1 pre-loaded and 1 intra workout. So after initial mixing I fill up to 1,000mL in my bottle. However, I find myself wanting more fluid to sip through my workout (which are roughly 90min) after I’ve pre-loaded that first dose. Is it okay to fill up to 1,500mL of water for only 2 doses after initially mixing? I went by the label, as I know the mixture and formulas are very precise, so I wasn’t sure if more water would compromise any of the effects. I would appreciate any of your thoughts on this.

By the way, I love the 2,000mL Nalgene bottles… About time I got something that size.

Thanks!


#11

Water amounts listed on label are minimals. More is fine.


#12

Awesome. Thanks for the reply, Chris.


#13

there is ONE negative to experiencing Plazma.

Nearing the end of a tub may cause mild feelings of panic if you don’t have another one on standby.

Best of luck with your goals.


#14

There’s something to be said for the futility of attempting to mimic Biotest products with other brands. I remember hearing about Plazma before it actually came out and began using Pepto Pro and Karbolyn thinking it would essentially provide the same benefits. The problem was I got so damn sore from John Meadow’s leg sessions I was ruined for 3-4 days afterwards. Upon switching to Plazma upon it’s release literally cut my soreness days down to 1 if that. Nothing compares Plazma. The training window is your biggest opportunity…put your money where it matters most.


#15

Thanks for weighing in, Mark. Been on the full Indigo-3G/Plazma/MAG-10 combo for just over a week now and it’s far beyond any other protocol I have tried. While it’s pricey for me, the effects from these products in the peri-workout window are impressive to say the least.