Lost on the Transition

Chris and others,

I am on my last week of v-diet v3.5, had some time today to sit with my internet, pen and paper and start planning out how I will eat post-vdiet. I have to say I’m a bit lost.

Little background: I train using a 5/3/1 template, strength is my focus and has been for some time. Like many that lift, regardless of current goals, “looking good” creeps in now and again. I began the v-diet as a last ditch effort as my bodyweight had increased recently with no corresponding strength increases, and although it’s “cool” to be bloated and fat as a powerlifter…if ‘bad’ weight gain isn’t coming with corresponding good strength gains, NO THANKS! So it was time for me to hit the reset button, get things under control a bit, lose some chub so I can slowly build back up…

So, that’s my plan. Last night I went to Caveman’s “grateful” thread to glean any diet information I could as that guy’s level of muscularity and development has always been awesome to me. In there he mentions a few specific articles to read for diet- Massive Eating by JB (although he readily states it’s too many calories for his preference) Carb Cycling Codex by Thibs, T-Dawg Diet, etc. I’ve read all I could find that he listed.

The Massive Eating is waaaaaaay too many calories for me at this time and is probably just not meant for someone like me. I followed all the steps and at my current size (5’9" 210) it tells me 4450 calories. The Carb Cycling Codex tells me someone my size needs 3780 calories to gain and 2520 to lose.

Now, I compare these numbers with the V Diet, where I am eating ~2000 calories on workout days (3x) and ~1580 on non-workout days (4x)…I aimed for “700” calories for dinner each night, for a weekly average of 1760/day. It is obvious to me that I can not jump from ~1760/day to any of the above numbers. It’s also obvious to me that while I have stuck to the diet 100%, and see no way of me not continuing to do so through Thursday, my last day, I cannot stay on this low level of calories. There have been many days lately where I just feel tired all damn day. I have gotten through my workouts, hit all the reps I needed to hit, etc, but the workouts are definitely harder to get through- at this point I feel I am willing myself through them.

Results of the diet so far, I have lost 9.5lbs and 2.25" off my waist (where my pants sit. 2" at the belly button). I would actually like to get my waist a bit tighter, maybe another 2-3", but at this point I think maybe another 3/4" is about the most I could hope for with only 5 days left.

So, where do I go from here? I suppose I would honestly like that answer applied to two different scenarios- 1) where do I go from here if I want to start putting on some muscle without putting the fat back on (is this even possible right now?) and 2) where do I go from here if I want to take off a couple more inches (seems this isn’t probable without staying at this low calorie level)? I guess being interested in two opposite goals is where the carb cycling becomes attractive.

Also considering grabbing a bottle of HOT-ROX to make the transition possibly easier? Should also be noted, I’m currently on a Blast dose of Test, will be tapering that down to TRT dose in the next month, and then getting off completely for a while (with proper HCG and SERM pct).

The best supplement for post-V-Diet is Indigo-3G.

You’ll want to move to a moderate level of calories but ideally get to a point where you don’t have to count everything to avoid getting fat. The V Diet should have helped with this.

Obviously you can’t and shouldn’t stay very low calorie for long and need to ramp up with “clean” foods.

Basically, eat more clean foods and adjust as you go based on results. Easier said than done, I know, but honesty the key to maintaining leanness and building muscle without fat gain is, and always will be, “Stop eating shit food. Forever.”

That said, a smart carb cycling approach can work. But for most people Indigo-3G is the cure they need if they’re “easy fat gainers” and it makes strict carb cycling and excessive macro counting unnecessary because your body simply partitions nutrients better.


thanks for the reply. I suppose I should have included, extra supps simply are not an option at the moment. I stretched the bank a bit buying the vdiet, so I’ll need a month or so to recover. I know the article says you’ll save money by not buying groceries…what can I say? I personally didn’t! So anyway, budget being tight, what’s spent extra on supps one month must come out of the following month’s…is what it is.

edit: just remembered I mentioned maybe getting HOT-ROX, ha- slightly after I posted that I looked at the finances and turns out my HOT-ROX money had to renew my Sam’s club! sorry for confusion- I really don’t have extra supp $!

my plan must consist of whole food plus I already have my intra-wo Plazma, but nothing more will be added.

anyway, I believe the rest of your reply applies just fine. I had a thought- Thibs carb cycling codex gives numbers for trying to lose fat and numbers for gaining muscle. The “lose fat” puts me right about 2500 calories on the moderate day, so that’s already about 7-800 more than the daily average on V-Diet, so sanity wise that should be doable- then slowly work my way up to the gaining amount of ~3500. maybe 4 weeks 2500, 4 3000, then up to 3500. or maybe something even slower, adding 250cals every 3-4 weeks from the 2500.

Sounds like a good plan!

found a 2/3 bottle of Indigo-3G leftover from last time
I tried it, was prob too fat then to notice a difference. figure I’ll use it at least the first 10 days, can’t hurt. maybe a money tree will sprout between now and then and I’ll be able to figure
something out.


Man I am flopping and floundering around driving myself nuts. I have a feeling of the right answer, but my head is spinning and I need outside intervention…

So I had come to the conclusion that I needed to carb cycle. Setting myself up according to CT’s carb cycling codex, I ended up with the following macros (roughly, i dont have the exact in front of me)

315g Pro
275g Carb
30g fat

315 pro
335 carb
30 fat

315 pro
215 carb
30 fat

Now, for someone like myself who seems to have some issues with carbs…granted im not the worst at 5’9" 210, but ive always felt i should be leaner given my perception of my effort…this of course seems like a lot of carbs to me, even on my low day. maybe not necessarily on paper, but actually doing it, it feels like a lot to me. regardless, this past Friday i did a “moderate” day, followed by Sat and Sun of “low” days. Now, I FELT like I was bloating up by Saturday, and I became sensitive to it, spent a lot of the day yesterday thinking and reading and freaking myself out, finally deciding I should do the Anabolic Diet. After convincing myself that it seems like a good idea, and the logic is good enough for me, blah blah blah, I set up a sample day (today) and a couple hours into the day I’m MORE than second guessing it, looking at all this cheese, heavy cream, etc that I have to eat…seems ridiculous to me.

AND, lastnight prior to bed, despite feeling bloated and fat, I saw myself in the mirror and thought my muscles looked nice and full, and I didn’t actually look fat at all…perhaps even looked leaner (probably due to certain muscles looking fuller).

Anyway, I feel like the answer is to carb cycle as originally intended, but I have to admit I’m scared of putting the fat I lost on the V-diet right back on- I certainly don’t want that, in fact I’d like to continue getting leaner, while getting bigger and most importantly, stronger.

Please set me straight as best you can, to include the macros above- if there’s something new and improved beyond the carb cycling codex, perhaps really low carbs on “low” day, with even higher on high day (does it even matter?!).

Your replies are always helpful- Thanks Chris.

Day to day perceptions can be deceiving. It’s pretty easy for most of us to, say, go to bed feeling fatter and wake up and think, “Man, I look ripped!” If we changed our diets based on that, we’d go nuts. Too many factors involved - like water retention, “food babies”, glycogen etc. All of these are in flux daily. And if we’re worried about, say, gaining fat from added carbs, then we can for sure “see” that fat gain… even after a day or two, which we intellectually know isn’t happening that fast.

The good news is, only fairly lean people notice this stuff. Can’t see these things when you’re fat. The bad news, it drives us crazy.

With the carb cycling plan, my initial thoughts are that those number do seem on the high side. But then we have to look at where those carbs are coming from. For example, I may personally take in 300g of carbs in a day from Finibars and workout nutrition drinks alone. BUT, I’ve also found it virtually impossible to gain fat on those carb sources because “a carb isn’t a carb” as Dr. Berardi famously said on T Nation. Make those 300g of carbs from wheat bread, and I’d gain fat. So keep that in mind.

All that aside, one thing I’ve always liked in a Pulse Fast day, regardless of goals - fat loss or muscle gain. As you recall, a pulse fast is basically one day a week spent semi-fasted, drinking nothing with Mag-10 every 2-3 hours. This not only “fixes” any damage from perhaps overdoing it the other 6 days, but it also sets you up for some serious gains for the day or two after when regular eating is brought back in. (The day after would be a high carb day if carb cycling.)

Hope that didn’t confuse you further!

crystal clear, thank you.

all carbs would be coming from clean sources- steel cut oatmeal in the morning, then mostly a lot of brown rice throughout the day. the difference between a “low” day and a “moderate” day is basically the addition of peri-WO nutrition. then a “high” day may receive another serving of oats or more rice. I will need to do some tweaking so that my carbs are limited to breakfast, pre, during, and post WO. so far I’ve still been eating carbs at dinner, and I think I need to get rid of that.

but yes there’s no “sugar” in terms of cake, ice cream, soda, candy, etc.

Look at Nate Miyaki’s articles. He recommends white rice as a better source of carbs because it doesn’t have the anti-nutrients from the rice bran.

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Disclaimer: Individual results may vary.