Indigo-3G + Stack + Diet Questions

[Cthaxton]

Hi Chris!

I’m starting my second week of Indigo-3G, and I’m wanting to confirm I have all of this locked in from other articles/posts I’ve read to maximize the Indigo-3G effects over the next 3 months… So far, I think I’ve noticed an increased pump/muscle fullness & work capacity, but not as much in the mirror/scale…

Workout: Thib’s Layer System
Stats: 6’0, 198 lbs, roughly 18-20% BF based off scale reading (targeting 12-15%)
Supplements & Schedule:
6 am - 6 caps of Indigo-3G
645 - 1st does of Plazma
7-8am - workout with 2nd Plazma dose
9 am - 1 serving Mag-10
10 am - 1 serving Surge Recovery (I saw Thib’s mention this stack once in his T Nation forum as ideal for a weight gain phase… thought the extra carbs would be good with Indigo-3G too)
12-1230 - Lunch - usually protein with rice.
Afternoon/Evening: 2-3 servings Metabolic Drive, dinner.

Questions:

• Should I condense the Mag-10/Surge Recovery doses to 30 min after workout/30 min after Mag-10 respectively to get breakfast in 30 min after Surge Recovery? Or is that stack sufficient until lunch? I’m currently having trouble fitting in a solid meal to then keep the less flexible lunch timing, so trying to figure out what my priority should be

• Assuming my diet is dialed in (working on it) with Indigo-3G, do I still need to be in a calorie deficit to lose fat? My understanding/expectation is Indigo-3G helps resolve this dilemma by letting you eat for gains while losing fat, again assuming a clean diet.

• With the heavy carb load during the workout period/lunch, & Indigo-3G’s 6 hour window, the recommendation would be minimizing carbs in the evening, correct?

Let me know if you need more info! Any advice/feedback/recommendation is much appreciate - Thank you in advance!

[Chris_Colucci]

@Cthaxton

Should I condense the Mag-10/Surge Recovery doses to 30 min after workout/30 min after Mag-10 respectively to get breakfast in 30 min after Surge Recovery? Or is that stack sufficient until lunch?

I’d actually consider pushing the Surge Recovery a bit further back, to like 11ish. That’d give you a better opportunity to capitalize on protein synthesis, instead of giving your body aminos at 7 and 8 and 9 and 10. This explains why it can be more effective to space out protein servings (or “pulses”): https://biotest.t-nation.com/articles/protein-pulsing-for-muscle

I do remember the old school “double dose Surge” protocol, so multiple Surge servings is definitely a thing. But that was before stuff like Plazma and Mag-10 was available. Surge Recovery is still a very solid player and a great tool in the toolbox, so it’s worth experimenting with.

so trying to figure out what my priority should be

Really, the top priority is the Plazma around training. The stuff after that is gravy and you can fine-tune as you go. Keep the pre/during Plazma in place and manipulate the other variables a few weeks at a time to see how you respond. Monitor overall energy, muscle soreness (lack thereof), appetite, progress in the gym, weight/body comp (obviously), etc.

@Cthaxton

do I still need to be in a calorie deficit to lose fat?

It depends a bit on the macro breakdown of your diet, but typically you do want to start with a slight calorie deficit and adjust weekly based on results. As your body’s insulin sensitivity improves, you may find you’re seeing improved body comp without having to drop calories.

Also, the training plan is going to play a role in results since that’s a determining factor in how the calories get used by the body. The Layer System is a very solid routine, for sure, but it’s not ideal for fat loss (more geared towards building size and strength).

You can still use it, especially adding the carries for conditioning, and let the diet do the fat loss work. Just really keep an eye on recovery between sessions and consider some light cardio (even just walking) on the non-lifting days.

@Cthaxton

the recommendation would be minimizing carbs in the evening, correct?

Generally, yeah. A good way to nudge body comp in the right direction is to focus your day’s carb intake closest to workout time.

[Cthaxton]

@Chris_Colucci

I’d actually consider pushing the Surge Recovery a bit further back, to like 11ish. That’d give you a better opportunity to capitalize on protein synthesis

Great call. Think I was too focused on trying to capitalize on that 1-2 hour post workout window… I like pushing it better as that opens up a slot for a solid food meal.

@Chris_Colucci

I do remember the old school “double dose Surge” protocol, so multiple Surge servings is definitely a thing. But that was before stuff like Plazma and Mag-10 was available

Got it. Think I was basing this off the Mag-10 label saying you could take a 2nd does an hour after the first - figured I could sub out SR for Mag-10 in that 2nd one, but your point above addresses this.

@Chris_Colucci

Really, the top priority is the Plazma around training. The stuff after that is gravy and you can fine-tune as you go. Keep the pre/during Plazma in place and manipulate the other variables a few weeks at a time to see how you respond. Monitor overall energy, muscle soreness (lack thereof), appetite, progress in the gym, weight/body comp (obviously), et

Thanks for advice here. Follow up question: I will eventually cut back on taking all the extras. I plan to continue using Plazma… Beyond that, would you recommend keeping Mag-10 or I3G if having to choose one or the other? Does it depend on goals?

@Chris_Colucci

You can still use it, especially adding the carries for conditioning, and let the diet do the fat loss work

This was my plan… Realizing the Layer System is designed for building as much size & strength as possible, and I think that’s my bigger goal right now with dropping BF a close second. I was hoping the I3G & diet would allow me to gradually lose fat while building muscle. Maybe this is unrealistic? Understand this is really tough to do, but I thought that’s the concept I3G was designed around.

Really appreciate the content y’all put out & the help provided - thank you!

[Chris_Colucci]

@Cthaxton

Follow up question : I will eventually cut back on taking all the extras. I plan to continue using Plazma… Beyond that, would you recommend keeping Mag-10 or I3G if having to choose one or the other? Does it depend on goals?

It’d depend a bit on your goals as well as your overall nutrition. Offhand, I’d probably pick Indigo-3G to really capitalize on the Plazma, nudge things in the body comp/fat loss direction, and improve insulin sensitivity. Just be sure your daily protein intake is up to snuff.

I was hoping the I3G & diet would allow me to gradually lose fat while building muscle. Maybe this is unrealistic? Understand this is really tough to do, but I thought that’s the concept I3G was designed around.

That is something Indigo can help with. It’s just that I’m a fan of coordinating training and nutrition and supps in the same direction to hit the goal most efficiently. But, yep, dialing in your diet will go a long way towards improving things.