Biotest

Indigo-3G - Carbs and the Sweet Spot


#1

Hey Chris, sorry if this has been asked before.

With fatloss as the major goal, someone just starting Indigo coming from a low carb diet should start slow(let’s say 100g carbs) and ramp up carbs by 25-50g every few days to find the “sweet spot” or should they just choice a high number(let’s say 300g) and lower by 25-50g every few days?

Thanks in advance.


#2

Start around 300g, give it 2 weeks, adjust up or down as needed.


#3

[quote]corstijeir wrote:
Start around 300g, give it 2 weeks, adjust up or down as needed.[/quote]

Also note sometimes you may need to tweak fats down a bit versus cutting carbs.


#4

First, it’s all about choosing the right carbs. I suggest no wheat-based carbs and plenty of rice. And of course always take care of workout nutrition with Plazma, Anaconda, and/or MAG-10. The carbs contain in those supplements cannot be compared to regular food carbs and actually help to increase fat loss.

Most every Indigo user who started too low with carbs regretted it. 300g is a better starting point for most people (that includes counting the carbs in workout drinks), even with fat loss in mind. I went from around 100g per day pre-Indigo to 300 to 400 daily and got leaner. Clean foods in the diet of course, but I was not “on a diet” by any means. (Gained about 16 pounds of muscle in a year too.)

Always remember that Indigo-3G is a nutrient repartitioning agent. You have to give it those nutrients in order to get the most out of it.

And here’s a good summary of carb choices that fit the bill: <a href="http://www.t-nation.com/strength-training-topics/1617"target=“new”>Basic Carb Guide

Do you have an Indigo log started yet? I’d be glad to look over your plan.


#5

You dont think there will be some unfortunate side effects from going from 50-100 grams a day for a few months to 300g a day right off the bat?


#6

Just great muscle pump, better workouts, and muscle gain. MAYBE a little water retention at first, but that’s not fat gain. And making good solid food choices will go a long way to helping there.


#7

[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
First, it’s all about choosing the right carbs. I suggest no wheat-based carbs and plenty of rice. And of course always take care of workout nutrition with Plazma, Anaconda, and/or MAG-10. The carbs contain in those supplements cannot be compared to regular food carbs and actually help to increase fat loss.

Most every Indigo user who started too low with carbs regretted it. 300g is a better starting point for most people (that includes counting the carbs in workout drinks), even with fat loss in mind. I went from around 100g per day pre-Indigo to 300 to 400 daily and got leaner. Clean foods in the diet of course, but I was not “on a diet” by any means. (Gained about 16 pounds of muscle in a year too.)

Always remember that Indigo-3G is a nutrient repartitioning agent. You have to give it those nutrients in order to get the most out of it.

And here’s a good summary of carb choices that fit the bill: <a href="http://www.T-Nation.com/strength-training-topics/1617"target=“new”>Basic Carb Guide

Do you have an Indigo log started yet? I’d be glad to look over your plan.
[/quote]

Thanks Chris, I had started one my first attempt at indigo during a bulk but after about a week i ended up in and out of the coutnry for an extended period of travel for work and things got scrapped.

Plan on starting up one this weekend or updating the other one for the cut and give indigo a full 8 weeks minimum.

My main carbs are coming from rice/sweet potatoes/quinao(sp?) and waxy maize(peri workout). Have some fini bars on the way i plan to use for pre workout. Pulsing MAG-10 2-3 times a day.

Right now it is usually no carbs during the day with 40-50 G coming peri, and 40-50 g post on training days. Cardio is 5 days a week fasted walk with my dog for 45 min carrying a weighted back pack. Weight training is 4-5 days a week mainly mountain dog style/inspired.

I am extremely carb phobic and the last time i got down to single digit bf levels was mainly on ketosis and very low carb so i am having trouble mentally opening up the flood gates to carb use. As much as I want to ‘trust the indigo’ to do its job I am fearful, wont lie.


#8

I was in the same boat as you. As a former fat guy with jacked-up fat cell metabolism and nutrient uptake mechanisms, I simply could not eat carbs outside of the workout window without gaining fat. Even clean carbs. It was depressing. Indigo fixed me right up.

Note: Avoid fasted cardio. As CT noted in his forum: “Any form of completely fasted physical activity is a bad idea. It can lead to muscle loss and a catabolic hormonal profile which will make fat loss and building muscle harder. Furthermore, recent studies have shown that fasted cardio led to a lower total caloric expenditure over the whole day when compared to the same protocol in a fed state (either via slowed metabolism or being less active due to fatigue).”

Walks probably aren’t too catabolic but I’d suggest instead to use my “conditioning, not cardio” method found at the bottom of this blog: http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_blog_hammer_velocity_shugart/running_makes_you_fat Very effective with no risk of muscle loss. You can still take the walks of course of extra NEPA, but no need to do them totally fasted. Even a MAG-10 only would help avoid catabolism and the other drawbacks of fully-fasted cardio.

Your plan looks pretty good, but it would be greatly improved with Plazma (even just two servings) on lifting days. Remember, it’s not just about the insulin response, but using that insulin to jack the right things into the muscle. Waxy maize is “empty.” If it’s a budget issue, then maybe the auto-shop program will save you some dough on the Indigo portion, or one of the package deals. But, you’re off to a great start with the pulsing.


#9

[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
I was in the same boat as you. As a former fat guy with jacked-up fat cell metabolism and nutrient uptake mechanisms, I simply could not eat carbs outside of the workout window without gaining fat. Even clean carbs. It was depressing. Indigo fixed me right up.

Note: Avoid fasted cardio. As CT noted in his forum: “Any form of completely fasted physical activity is a bad idea. It can lead to muscle loss and a catabolic hormonal profile which will make fat loss and building muscle harder. Furthermore, recent studies have shown that fasted cardio led to a lower total caloric expenditure over the whole day when compared to the same protocol in a fed state (either via slowed metabolism or being less active due to fatigue).”

Walks probably aren’t too catabolic but I’d suggest instead to use my “conditioning, not cardio” method found at the bottom of this blog: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_blog_hammer_velocity_shugart/running_makes_you_fat Very effective with no risk of muscle loss. You can still take the walks of course of extra NEPA, but no need to do them totally fasted. Even a MAG-10 only would help avoid catabolism and the other drawbacks of fully-fasted cardio.

Your plan looks pretty good, but it would be greatly improved with Plazma (even just two servings) on lifting days. Remember, it’s not just about the insulin response, but using that insulin to jack the right things into the muscle. Waxy maize is “empty.” If it’s a budget issue, then maybe the auto-shop program will save you some dough on the Indigo portion, or one of the package deals. But, you’re off to a great start with the pulsing.

[/quote]

Thanks for this Chris. Im going to check out the link and ill look into the plazma. As for the walks, funny thing is i was doing a pulse first thing, then the walk but switched last week to walk fasted, pulse after. I’ll go back to the pulse first, walk second followed by breakfast.

Ive been pulsing for about 2-3 weeks now i think. I’ll tell you this, if i had to give up all supplements and only keep one, ill be damned if i let anyone touch my MAG-10.


#10

That link was interesting. I used to hit the jump rope hard for 10 min after my lifting sessions back in the day, will drop the backpack on the walk and hit the rope again. Cant cut out the walks even if i wanted to, they are more for the dog than me.


#11

Yeah, nothing wrong with regular walks. But there could be a lot wrong with an un-walked dog!

I agree with you on MAG-10. As far as the supplement that’s had the biggest impact on my physique and eating habits, I’d go with Indigo. So you’re definitely on the right track! Keep me posted.


#12

Hey Chris, one last question for you. What is your stance on Ezekiel bread?


#13

It’s still bread, so best avoided. Still contains wheat (most varieties at least) and all the drawbacks associated with it. I think they may make a rice-based bread that’s okay though.


#14

Quick follow up Chris. Started on Tues and tracked my macros and cals for the past two days and fell a bit short. Aiming for 300g on trainig days and 200-250 on my off days(i train 5 days a week currently).

Here are my carb macros for those days(pulsing is done 30-40 min prior to meals, 30 min after i finish training and peri)

Day 1(training day)
10g Pulse
30G Breakfast

10g Pulse
40g Lunch

Preworkout
80g(two finibars)
Peri
50G(mix of waxy/whey/creatine until I decied on plazma)

Dinner
10g Pulse
40g Dinner

total 270

Day 2(rest day)

10g Pulse
30G Breakfast

40G Lunch

25G Meal

10G pulse

40G Dinner

40G Meal

Total 235G

Zero bloat, noticibly more “full” and a bit more vascular in forearms. My bigger issue is reducing Protein and fat to still stay bellow my total cals. I want to hit that 300 number today(leg day).

Main question is my timing ok? Where/when should i add the exta 30-60Gs i need a day? Also i am thining to switching to 1 finibar pre workout and adding the 40G into peri. Lastly, can Fini’s be used as a meal replacement to up the carbs or should i just grab some rice cakes and add them to some of my meals?

Really apprietiate the help.


#15

Timing looks good.

If you decide on Plazma, that’ll give you 76g carbs for workout time (2 servings). Until then, you can really bump carbs up anywhere in the solid meals. The solid meal after lifting would be good. Breakfast is easiest for me. Using the carb guide I link above, all those hot non-wheat cereals are easy to make adn adjust carbs: oatmeal, flaked quinoa, cream of buckwheat, Rice n’ Shine etc.

Plain rice cakes are fine, but they’re actually not very carby. Just convenient and good “delivery mechanisms” for other foods. No need to gag the dry things down if you don’t like them. One of the best things I ever bought was a dedicated rice cooker. About 15 bucks, makes jasmine rice perfectly every time, and fast too. Easy to add that as a side to dinner or make a rice pudding out of it using almond milk and Metabolic Drive.

Also, don’t assume you need to go lower in carbs on off days. Yes, you probably naturally will given the lack of a training drink, but remember that you’re also recovering and repairing on those days, so I’d get those up to at least 300g eventually too. You can build up if you’d like.

One great thing about properly formulated workout drinks like Plazma is that you just can’t turn those carbs into body fat. Very different kind of carbs, and the muscles will just suck them up and put them to work, especially when running Indigo at the same time. This fact helped ease me into higher carb intake (as a guy who was scared of them at one time) since that’s a “safe” time to bump them up and send them to the right place: muscles, not love handles.


#16

Great feedback thanks. Pretty sure I am going to be adding plazma to my next order. Going to check on amazon for a rice cooker as well, i can eat rice all day long.