Biotest

Getting Single Bodyfat Digits in 2013


#1

Hi Chris

Your team made a lot of exciting discoveries about building muscles and losing fat in the past 2-3 years and it. So much that I don’t think articles made in 2007-2009 are that relevant anymore, especially for someone using Indigo and Plazma. (One of many examples : http://tinyurl.com/c7leqcj (it’s on this forum, just shorter URL)

There have been a lot of threads in every sub-forum, but they get too specific and aimed at the original poster and I believe it restrains how many users can relate to them. I’d like to keep this one as general as possible and discuss topics such as 1) training for fat loss in 2013 2) Eating for fat loss in 2013 and 3) Supplements for at loss. For the purpose of the thread, I’d still define fat-loss as getting single digit bodyfat for someone who’s training seriously but is still 10-15% BF and wants to lean out for the summer. Excluded are people preparing for bodybuilding contest leanness or people above 20% BF.

  1. About training, usually what was reported as most effective way to reach fat-loss while maintaining muscle was to do lot of metabolic circuits or complexes to boost fat-loss, keeping doing heavy partials or other heavy work to “tell the muscle to stay there” and doing a little cardio (which I’ll define as treadmill/cycling) but not overdoing as it’s very catabolic. As Indigo or Plazma changed anything about that? Should I just keep doing regular workout and only change diet? Can people get away with a single-digit BF without doing cardio? What are the difference of approches between the coaches you work wih?

  2. For diet, Indigo changed a lot of things for the better! For the “bulking” phase, it worked like a charm in keeping me lean, but I’m still at 12-13% BF with a very caloric diet that was aimed to maximize muscle growth.
    Would you still recommend Velocity-Diet as the most effective way to get lean in 1 month?
    If a less radical approach was chosen, what would you change in a diet, assuming wheat and dairy had been removed? Lower carb progressively and keeping healthy fats at about 20-30% daily caloric intake? Lower fats progressively from diet? Should we have very low carbs meal (ie meat + vegetables without rice potatoes) or have 30-60 g carbs in every meal and post post-workout?

  3. For supplements, well, assuming people are already using Plazma and Indigo, and still have money for supps, what would be your first addition? HOT-ROX or Flameout or else?
    Is the maintenance dose of Indigo 4 or 6 caps a day? Should MAG-10 be used differently?

I know it’s a lot of questions, but I want to make it useful for a maximum of people to benefit :slight_smile:

Thank


#2

Wow, this would require me to write a handful of articles to share my thoughts completely, but I’ll try to throw out some ideas briefly. Lots of good questions there.

  1. Cardio in the traditional sense, lots of treadmilling etc, is never necessary for fat loss for the average guy (maybe needed for the contest bodybuilder looking to get to a very low, temporary level of unhealthy leanness.) I prefer the short, intense conditioning route, which I’ve outlined here: http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_blog_hammer_velocity_shugart/running_makes_you_fat

I’ll also echo Christian Thibaudeau in that you never “lift weights to lose fat” as a goal; you lift weight to build muscle and get stronger. You can do “resisted” conditioning and use shortened rest periods when lifting of course, but the thought in your head when lifting should be muscle, strength, performance, not fat loss.

John Meadows agrees. He writes in his Reactive Pump plan: “Cardio doesn’t burn fat, muscle burns fat. Cardio eats up muscle and lowers metabolic rate. Repeat that to yourself a hundred times, or until it sinks in. So never think of training as a means to burn fat. Instead, think of training purely as the mechanism to build muscle. And the more muscle you build, the more fat you burn, around the clock, day and at night.”

Targeted fat loss is mainly about diet. Cardio is for people who can’t control themselves when it comes to diet, and too much always backfires sooner or later since cardio increase hunger, is catabolic to muscle tissue, and increases anxiety which is often quelled by - you guessed it - medicating with more comfort food.

With things like Indigo-3G, Plazma and MAG-10, workout performance never has to suffer when the goal is fat loss. Strength doesn’t have to be assumed to dwindle, and muscle absolutely never needs to be sacrificed for shed fat. And yes, today I do believe you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time with advanced supplementation. Indigo-3G is a big part of that, along with the right workout nutrition drinks.

  1. I’m working on a new V-Diet now that will update the older plan.

For those on Indigo, I’ve found that it takes very little in the way of diet manipulation to trend things toward pure fat loss. Slightly fewer calories and slightly increased activity. Not really a need for a radical plan unless it’s some type of “beach emergency.” Indigo fixes the underlying issues that made people turn to very strict, or super low-carb diet plans.

  1. MAG-10 is a staple for me, so I’d include that with Plazma and Indigo-3G. Everything else is optional and fits certain needs.

Not getting enough omega-3 and functional fatty acids? Use Flameout. Hate veggies and berries but want their nutritional benefits? Use Superfood. Can’t sleep? Use Z12. But change the core physiology and nutrient uptake mechanisms with Indigo-3G, then take care of the training session with Plazma during and MAG-10 after, and you’re 95% of the way there and may not need anything else to reach your goals.


#3

how long till the new V-Diet Chris? Days, weeks?

[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
Wow, this would require me to write a handful of articles to share my thoughts completely, but I’ll try to throw out some ideas briefly. Lots of good questions there.

  1. Cardio in the traditional sense, lots of treadmilling etc, is never necessary for fat loss for the average guy (maybe needed for the contest bodybuilder looking to get to a very low, temporary level of unhealthy leanness.) I prefer the short, intense conditioning route, which I’ve outlined here: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_blog_hammer_velocity_shugart/running_makes_you_fat

I’ll also echo Christian Thibaudeau in that you never “lift weights to lose fat” as a goal; you lift weight to build muscle and get stronger. You can do “resisted” conditioning and use shortened rest periods when lifting of course, but the thought in your head when lifting should be muscle, strength, performance, not fat loss.

John Meadows agrees. He writes in his Reactive Pump plan: “Cardio doesn’t burn fat, muscle burns fat. Cardio eats up muscle and lowers metabolic rate. Repeat that to yourself a hundred times, or until it sinks in. So never think of training as a means to burn fat. Instead, think of training purely as the mechanism to build muscle. And the more muscle you build, the more fat you burn, around the clock, day and at night.”

Targeted fat loss is mainly about diet. Cardio is for people who can’t control themselves when it comes to diet, and too much always backfires sooner or later since cardio increase hunger, is catabolic to muscle tissue, and increases anxiety which is often quelled by - you guessed it - medicating with more comfort food.

With things like Indigo-3G, Plazma and MAG-10, workout performance never has to suffer when the goal is fat loss. Strength doesn’t have to be assumed to dwindle, and muscle absolutely never needs to be sacrificed for shed fat. And yes, today I do believe you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time with advanced supplementation. Indigo-3G is a big part of that, along with the right workout nutrition drinks.

  1. I’m working on a new V-Diet now that will update the older plan.

For those on Indigo, I’ve found that it takes very little in the way of diet manipulation to trend things toward pure fat loss. Slightly fewer calories and slightly increased activity. Not really a need for a radical plan unless it’s some type of “beach emergency.” Indigo fixes the underlying issues that made people turn to very strict, or super low-carb diet plans.

  1. MAG-10 is a staple for me, so I’d include that with Plazma and Indigo-3G. Everything else is optional and fits certain needs.

Not getting enough omega-3 and functional fatty acids? Use Flameout. Hate veggies and berries but want their nutritional benefits? Use Superfood. Can’t sleep? Use Z12. But change the core physiology and nutrient uptake mechanisms with Indigo-3G, then take care of the training session with Plazma during and MAG-10 after, and you’re 95% of the way there and may not need anything else to reach your goals.

[/quote]


#4

Sorry, not sure on an ETA. Just experimenting with some new ideas now.


#5

Great, thank you for the answer. It gives me a place to start.
Right now, my training and diet is mostly about gaining weight and strength at the fastest rate without going over a 13-14% BF threshold (which only assessed by look :p).
I highligthed my goals here http://tnation.T-Nation.com/hub/CPerfringens#myForums/thread/5571942/ but sadly thread hasn’t taken off. I’m almost there with a 291 calculated FS, 3 clean reps at 225 on BP and a 365 x3 DL. I should be between 1900-200 lbs when I get there. Today, I carry more muscle mass than I ever had.

When I’ll want to lower BF%, I’ll cut dairies and English muffin from diet, which should cut a good 500 kCal/day and I’ll go from there.
Training will mostly stay the same, but I’ll add sprint and-or farmer walks after training.

I’ll update here on how it goes.


#6

I know you think we should generally avoid wheat and that it’s not solely related to the gluten contained. I don’t have celiac disease but wanted to know if you believe other gluten-containing foods like barley and rye should be avoided.


#7

Yes, I’d avoid them all. Wheat is the main culprit, mainly because it’s so prevalent. But you can get breads and pastas made of rice and those are fine.


#8

I didn’t want to hi-jack someone else’s thread, but I’ve read a link you posted ( http://thehealingproject.us/2012/09/22/book-summary-wheat-belly-by-william-davis-md/ ), and I find my lack of energy during the last few weeks might be related to wheat withdrawal.

“When people stop ingesting wheat products, 30% experience something that can only be called withdrawal: fatigue, mental fog, irritability, inability to function at work or school, depression.”

I’ve drastically cut wheat and dairies in the last 3-4 weeks. Is it said somewhere in the book how to cope with this and for how long should I expect symptoms?


#9

True withdrawal from the opiate targeting components in wheat only takes a week or less, the author has said. So make sure you haven’t also cut way back on calories or other carb sources. That’s easy to do at first until you find wheat replacements.


#10

What would you advise before a sprint session (about 10 mins according to these protocols : www.charlespoliquin.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/1007/Three_Superb_Sprint_Interval_Workouts_To_Achieve_Y.aspx)

500 ml of MAG-10 before (2 scoops) or after or 250/250 or something else?


#11

For short sessions, I prefer <a href="http://www.t-nation.com/store/products/mag-10"target=“new”>Mag-10. I’ll usually just use one servings, peri-style. Unless it’s a pre-breakfast sessions, then 1 serving pre, then 1 post.