Biotest

For Those Who Have Done the V-Diet

I’ve been reading a lot about this diet and it’s really interesting.

I’ve read some peoples stats but then i find out the before pics/stats are from way earlier (like with that gus guy the before pics/stats were actually 5 months before he finished the V-Diet)

i’ve seen pics that really don’t seem to have much of a change at all even in significantly overweight people, and in others it seems like a crazy change.

Right now i’m only 155lb. at 6ft and 13% bf :frowning: but i plan to start my bulk next saturday and bulk for awhile. once i hit maybe 16-17% bf or so with as much muscle as i can gain in this time do u think it would be worth it to do the V-Diet? As long i can even lose 8-10lb. of fat in 4 weeks i’d be extremely happy, as long as i’m not losing the muscle i worked for.

by the way im almost 17 and i gain fat easily. thanks for the help/opinions

The V-Diet is not for you for many, many reasons.

Lots of good nutrition info here at T-Nation though. Just get to reading, learning, and applying.

[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
The V-Diet is not for you for many, many reasons.

Lots of good nutrition info here at T-Nation though. Just get to reading, learning, and applying. [/quote]

Can u elaborate on that? i’m not really sure why it wouldnt work for me once i’ve bulked up some. What are the reasons?

(just so u know i’m not completely new to nutrition and training concepts, i’m just curious about this diet because it seems very interesting)

[quote]David1991 wrote:

Can u elaborate on that? i’m not really sure why it wouldnt work for me once i’ve bulked up some. What are the reasons?

[/quote]

Some of the supplements are not made for those under 18. You would not be allowed to buy them.

You are 155 pounds. Unless you’re 4’ 10" you don’t need to lose weight, you need to gain muscle. This muscle gain will help with what fat loss you may need.

[quote]

(just so u know i’m not completely new to nutrition and training concepts, i’m just curious about this diet because it seems very interesting)[/quote]

You are 16. You are completely new to everything.

[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
David1991 wrote:

Some of the supplements are not made for those under 18. You would not be allowed to buy them.

[/quote]

i’d be 17 when i did it, someone could buy it for me and any supplement thats healthy for an 18 y/o would be fine for me at that point. i mean its not like were dealing with steroids. just stimulants, protein, etc…

[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
You are 155 pounds. Unless you’re 4’ 10" you don’t need to lose weight, you need to gain muscle. This muscle gain will help with what fat loss you may need.

[/quote]

I’m 6ft and yes i have a lot of muscle i need to gain. I’m not planning on doing the diet now. I plan on bulking up for as long as possible (probably around 5 months) until i get too much fat (around 17%) then i was planning on doing the diet to cut back down

[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
You are 16. You are completely new to everything.
[/quote]

i agree with that in the sense that i have not had enough time to become experienced. I was just pointing out that for the last 2 years i have been training, eating correctly with near perfect nutrition, and have spent a lot of time reading articles from experts, studies, etc… (i’m just trying to show that i’m not new to nutrition and training theories/concepts)

so considering all of that do u think i could do it? and if not why? not trying to be stubborn here, i just dont see why i couldnt once i pack on some more muscle

[quote]David1991 wrote:
i mean its not like were dealing with steroids. just stimulants, …
[/quote]

this made me laugh.

when are you going to post your pic? don’t forget to hold a shoe.

[quote]David1991 wrote:
i’d be 17 when i did it, someone could buy it for me and any supplement thats healthy for an 18 y/o would be fine for me at that point. i mean its not like were dealing with steroids. just stimulants, protein, etc…[/quote]

Wow.

You realize you’re talking to a Biotest employee? If they tell you not to take one of their own supplements, don’t you think there’s a good reason?

Also remember that this is a trained professional with years of experience speaking to you here.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
David1991 wrote:
i’d be 17 when i did it, someone could buy it for me and any supplement thats healthy for an 18 y/o would be fine for me at that point. i mean its not like were dealing with steroids. just stimulants, protein, etc…

Wow.

You realize you’re talking to a Biotest employee? If they tell you not to take one of their own supplements, don’t you think there’s a good reason?

Also remember that this is a trained professional with years of experience speaking to you here.[/quote]

Hey David,

Shugs (Chris Shugart) is the person who created the V-Diet.

I think it is great you are planning ahead.

So the V-Diet isn’t for you right now. That’s okay.

What training are you currently doing?

Have you started a training log?

Tell us what you are doing and I am sure you will get some good advice and tips from folks.

It is never too early for good nutrition and planned, strenous physical activity.

some supps will be great for you. Superfood would be great, Grow!, Metabolic Drive are GREAT for you right now.

Best thing for you is good, clean whole foods

Start a log, tell us what you are doing, tell us your stats and your goals.

[quote]jisboss wrote:

when are you going to post your pic? don’t forget to hold a shoe.[/quote]

?

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Wow.

You realize you’re talking to a Biotest employee? If they tell you not to take one of their own supplements, don’t you think there’s a good reason?

Also remember that this is a trained professional with years of experience speaking to you here.[/quote]

of course. i just dont see the logic of why. I’m just trying to get informed as to why i couldnt do it with good results

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

Hey David,

Shugs (Chris Shugart) is the person who created the V-Diet.

I think it is great you are planning ahead.

So the V-Diet isn’t for you right now. That’s okay.

What training are you currently doing?

Have you started a training log?

Tell us what you are doing and I am sure you will get some good advice and tips from folks.

It is never too early for good nutrition and planned, strenous physical activity.

some supps will be great for you. Superfood would be great, Grow!, Metabolic Drive are GREAT for you right now.

Best thing for you is good, clean whole foods

Start a log, tell us what you are doing, tell us your stats and your goals.

[/quote]

thanks for the advice, i appreciate it. Honestly though i know a decent amount about training and nutrition. I eat a near perfect diet and im currently following the New Rules of Lifting routines by Alwyn Cosgrove. I may start a log and look for some input but mainly im just wondering as to why the V-diet wouldnt work for me (once i bulk up more, how would it be different than anyone else?)

[quote]David1991 wrote:
of course. i just dont see the logic of why. I’m just trying to get informed as to why i couldnt do it with good results[/quote]

Age. HOT-ROX is unnecessary and potentially dangerous at your age. Diet is the key. The V-Diet is also unnecessary and potentially dangerous (because of the HOT-ROX) at your age.

Diet is the key.

[quote]David1991 wrote:

thanks for the advice, i appreciate it. Honestly though i know a decent amount about training and nutrition. I eat a near perfect diet and im currently following the New Rules of Lifting routines by Alwyn Cosgrove. I may start a log and look for some input but mainly im just wondering as to why the v-diet wouldnt work for me (once i bulk up more, how would it be different than anyone else?)

[/quote]

Well right now, although you may think you have some chub to lose, you are really not heavy unless you are 4.11"

You also should not be taking the some of the supps until the age of 18.

Let’s not start manipulating the metabolism this early in the game. Hopefully if you have been eating so well and you are active you do have a good metabolism. If this is the case then your body will ALREADY respond to basic training.

Your best tool right now is your youth. Use it and get some mass on, learn some lifts, and gain some muscle memory. Make this a habit. Right now, although you have great enthusiasm, you need to incorporate this into your life as a daily activity. This is not a pet project.

Tell us your goals. Give me more stats. What is your height, weight, measurements

How much are you eating? What are you eating?

What is your current training plan?

What are your goals?

Azhaz on here is only 14 and he has already posted his before and after pics in the T-Cell. He’s doing great.

Hopefully you can get some good advice on here.

You are not the right candidate for the V-Diet right now. The creator of the diet himself has explained it to you. Once you’ve put in some years gaining mass (not bulking) and putting on some good muscle, then worry about cutting. Let’s see if you can build some appreciable size. It is a lot harder than you think.

What i’d like to know is the reasons for not being able to do the V-diet

so far i’ve only seen 2.

  1. too thin: well as i said i dont plan on doing it until i’ve bulked up

  2. too young: 17 isnt too young for supplements. the only supplements on this program are basically protein powder which i take, fish oil, flax seed, superfood (all healthy), and HOT-ROX which is basically some caffeine and a few other ingredients

[quote]Makavali wrote:
David1991 wrote:
of course. i just dont see the logic of why. I’m just trying to get informed as to why i couldnt do it with good results

Age. HOT-ROX is unnecessary and potentially dangerous at your age. Diet is the key. The V-Diet is also unnecessary and potentially dangerous (because of the HOT-ROX) at your age.

Diet is the key.[/quote]

if the hot-rox are unnecessary at age then i could just not take them with the v-diet. and hot-rox isnt much more complex than caffeine

so what other reasons would there be?

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

Well right now, although you may think you have some chub to lose, you are really not heavy unless you are 4.11"

You also should not be taking the some of the supps until the age of 18.

[/quote]
as i said im not trying to lose fat now.

and the only supplements i take are whey and im about to start taking creatine in a week

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

Your best tool right now is your youth. Use it and get some mass on, learn some lifts, and gain some muscle memory. Make this a habit. Right now, although you have great enthusiasm, you need to incorporate this into your life as a daily activity. This is not a pet project.

Tell us your goals. Give me more stats. What is your height, weight, measurements

How much are you eating? What are you eating?

What is your current training plan?

What are your goals?

[/quote]

lol ok well as i said this is not some sudden thing for me that i decided to do. This is basically my lifestyle and im very strict/consistent with it and have been for 2 years now. i used to be about 125lb. at 5’10. gains have come but having to cut every few months slows it down.

however just to put it out there i’ll answer everything, i mean it would be stupid for me to think i couldnt improve in some way from what i’m doing

i came off a cut, did 10 weeks of “bulking” but that went horribly. i have no idea why since ive bulked successfully in the past but it was just bad overall, set me back with muscle and fat. anyway so i had to cut the last 8 weeks just to get near where i was before, now im 155lb. and 13%bf :frowning:

i only eat about 2200 calories now because its my week off. next week when i start bulking im going to be doing a type of carb cycling, basically getting about 100g of carbs more on training days and eating enough to hopefully gain about 1 lb. per week

My current training plan is NROL by alwyn cosgrove my goal is to gain as much muscle as possible in the next 15 weeks with minimal fat gain.

[quote]David1991 wrote:
What i’d like to know is the reasons for not being able to do the V-diet

so far i’ve only seen 2.

  1. too thin: well as i said i dont plan on doing it until i’ve bulked up

  2. too young: 17 isnt too young for supplements. the only supplements on this program are basically protein powder which i take, fish oil, flax seed, Superfood (all healthy), and HOT-ROX which is basically some caffeine and a few other ingredients

Makavali wrote:
David1991 wrote:
of course. i just dont see the logic of why. I’m just trying to get informed as to why i couldnt do it with good results

Age. HOT-ROX is unnecessary and potentially dangerous at your age. Diet is the key. The V-Diet is also unnecessary and potentially dangerous (because of the HOT-ROX) at your age.

Diet is the key.

if the Hot-Rox are unnecessary at age then i could just not take them with the V-diet. and Hot-Rox isnt much more complex than caffeine

so what other reasons would there be?

OctoberGirl wrote:

Well right now, although you may think you have some chub to lose, you are really not heavy unless you are 4.11"

You also should not be taking the some of the supps until the age of 18.

as i said im not trying to lose fat now.

and the only supplements i take are whey and im about to start taking creatine in a week

OctoberGirl wrote:

Your best tool right now is your youth. Use it and get some mass on, learn some lifts, and gain some muscle memory. Make this a habit. Right now, although you have great enthusiasm, you need to incorporate this into your life as a daily activity. This is not a pet project.

Tell us your goals. Give me more stats. What is your height, weight, measurements

How much are you eating? What are you eating?

What is your current training plan?

What are your goals?

lol ok well as i said this is not some sudden thing for me that i decided to do. This is basically my lifestyle and im very strict/consistent with it and have been for 2 years now. i used to be about 125lb. at 5’10. gains have come but having to cut every few months slows it down.

however just to put it out there i’ll answer everything, i mean it would be stupid for me to think i couldnt improve in some way from what i’m doing

i came off a cut, did 10 weeks of “bulking” but that went horribly. i have no idea why since ive bulked successfully in the past but it was just bad overall, set me back with muscle and fat. anyway so i had to cut the last 8 weeks just to get near where i was before, now im 155lb. and 13%bf :frowning:

i only eat about 2200 calories now because its my week off. next week when i start bulking im going to be doing a type of carb cycling, basically getting about 100g of carbs more on training days and eating enough to hopefully gain about 1 lb. per week

My current training plan is NROL by alwyn cosgrove
my goal is to gain as much muscle as possible in the next 15 weeks with minimal fat gain.

[/quote]

you are a little irritating. You aren’t a good candidate for the V-Diet, you’ve been told why, and yet you still want to argue.

no means no

youngens…

fella, you are 16, you don’t have much training time under your belt. You don’t, unless you are some olympic athlete that has been training since you were 4 years old. Are you?

Your perception of time is skewed… . you don’t know what a phase is,… you don’t know what “been training for a while” is… you haven’t lived a while yet. Do you even realize how many YEARS some folks use as a mass gaining phase??? not months… not weeks… . not days

so…

do your homework. Put in some time.

If you want some advice, great. I’ve told you what you need to do. A training log with all your info in the correct forum… the training log forum.

otherwise… you’ve really beaten this horse to death.

I’m annoying? thanks a lot.
i dont see how trying to understand something is annoying

i probably will start a log even though i already have one of my own and have gotten advice from some others. its a new forum so maybe theres something new to hear.

look it at from my point of view. losing fat is difficult for u but u have a lot of dedication and ur strict with ur training/diet. so u see this diet that practically promises at least 10lb. of fat loss in 4 weeks. u see that ur thin so u decide that you’ll bulk up for awhile and once u gain too much weight u will use this diet to cut the fat so u can start training for hypertrophy again.
wouldn’t u want to try the diet too? all i’m saying is i have received no valid reasons as to why i shouldnt do it. I’m sorry to be the new guy on the forum who seems ignorant or something but age and the fact that i’m thin now (but wont be when i do the diet) are really irrelevant to how the diet would work for me.

[quote]David1991 wrote:
I’m annoying? thanks a lot.
i dont see how trying to understand something is annoying

i probably will start a log even though i already have one of my own and have gotten advice from some others. its a new forum so maybe theres something new to hear.

look it at from my point of view. losing fat is difficult for u but u have a lot of dedication and ur strict with ur training/diet. so u see this diet that practically promises at least 10lb. of fat loss in 4 weeks. u see that ur thin so u decide that you’ll bulk up for awhile and once u gain too much weight u will use this diet to cut the fat so u can start training for hypertrophy again.
wouldn’t u want to try the diet too? all i’m saying is i have received no valid reasons as to why i shouldnt do it. I’m sorry to be the new guy on the forum who seems ignorant or something but age and the fact that i’m thin now (but wont be when i do the diet) are really irrelevant to how the diet would work for me.[/quote]

You seem to be basing all this on the premise that you will gain too much fat while trying to gain muscle. In reality, at your age and size, you can likely focus purely on gaining muscle with a good, solid diet and the fat will take care of itself. Not many teens who eat properly and train hard have to worry about fat loss after gaining quality muscle.

[quote]jstines wrote:
You seem to be basing all this on the premise that you will gain too much fat while trying to gain muscle. In reality, at your age and size, you can likely focus purely on gaining muscle with a good, solid diet and the fat will take care of itself. Not many teens who eat properly and train hard have to worry about fat loss after gaining quality muscle.
[/quote]

I gain fat very easily and used to be considerably overweight.
I’ve bulked before but the longest i could go was about 6 months. i ate very clean, never cheated, did HIIT and good progressive training. I gained muscle but some fat is inevitable so i went from about 11%bf to 17%bf and realized it was time to cut which took me about 4+ months. thats why i would like to do the V-Diet because it could shorten the time i have to cut by a lot.

How long have you been training?

Just out of curiosity, how much do you think you should weigh before doing the V-Diet? If you’re not at least 190, and thats pushing it, with a considerable amount of fat to lose, then I don’t think its for you.

OctoberGirl offered you some great advice - take it to heart. You’ll go much further in the long run by developing proper nutritional habits as well as a significant amount of time under the bar.

What does a typical day look like for you as far as food and training go?

[quote]jstines wrote:
How long have you been training?[/quote]

i’ve trained for 2 years now

[quote]Sayjin wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how much do you think you should weigh before doing the V-Diet? If you’re not at least 190, and thats pushing it, with a considerable amount of fat to lose, then I don’t think its for you.

OctoberGirl offered you some great advice - take it to heart. You’ll go much further in the long run by developing proper nutritional habits as well as a significant amount of time under the bar.

What does a typical day look like for you as far as food and training go?[/quote]

well as i said i do plan to bulk up to probably about 180 then do the V-Diet. i dont think i’m gonna get any real evidence as to why it wouldnt work for me but somehow would for an 18 year old so thats the plan for now

as for a typical day…well of course the training changes, but i’m currently following NROL. i just finished FL-2 and now i’m going to be doing Hypertrophy-1

my current diet is
Pre workout
-Protein powder, 1 scoops: 90 calories, 17g protein, 2g carbs, 1.5g fat
-oatmeal, 1/3 cup: 100 calories, 3.3g protein, 18g carbs, 1.67g fat
-1.1oz Banana: 27 calories, .3g protein, 6.9 g carbs, 0.13g fat
SUBTOTALS: 217 calories, 20.6 protein, 26.9g carbs, 3.3g fat

Meal 1 (post workout)
-Oatmeal, .75 cups: 225 calories, 7.5g protein, 40.5g carbs, 3.75g fat
-1.1oz Banana: 28 calories, .3g protein, 6.8 g carbs, 0.12g fat
-Protein powder, 1.5 scoops: 135 calories, 25.5g protein, 3g carbs, 2.25g fat
-2 oz. Chicken breast: 67 calories, 14g protein, 0 carbs, 0 fat
SUBTOTALS: 455 calories, 47.3g protein, 50.3carbs, 7.37g fat

Meal 1 (non-workout days)
-oatmeal, .625 cup: 187.5 calories, 6.25g protein, 33.75g carbs, 1.57g fat
-2/3 tbsp, natural PB: 67 calories, 3g protein, 2g carbs, 5.33g fat
-Protein powder, 1 scoops: 90 calories, 17g protein, 2g carbs, 1.5g fat
-2 oz. Chicken breast: 67 calories, 14 g protein, 0 carbs, 0 fat
SUBTOTALS: 412.5 calories, 40.25g protein, 37.75g carbs, 11.21g fat

Meal 2
-Cottage cheese, 1/2 cup: 100calories, 15g protein, 6g carbs, 1.5g fat
-oatmeal, 3/16 cup: 56 calories, 1.88g protein, 10.125g carbs, .94g fat
-chopped spinach 3oz.: 30 calories, 2g protein, 3g carbs, 0g fat
-Peanuts, 1 oz: 160 calories, 7g protein, 6g carbs, 14g fat
-3 egg whites: 51 calories, 10.8g protein, 0.6g carbs, 0.3g fat
SUBTOTALS: 397.5 calories, 36.68g protein, 22.625g carbs, 16.74g fat

Meal 3
-Whole wheat bread, 1 pieces: 100 calories, 4g protein, 18g carbs, 1.5g fat
-Chicken breast, 4 oz: 133 calories, 28g protein, 0 carbs, 1.33 fat
-Miracle whip, 1 tbsp: 20 calories, 0g protein, 1g carbs, 1.5g fat
-Peanuts, 1/2 oz: 80 calories, 3.5g protein, 3g carbs, 7g fat
SUBTOTALS: 333 calories, 35.5g protein, 22g carbs, 11.33g fat

Meal 4
-Cottage cheese, 1/4 cup: 50 calories, 7.5g protein, 3g carbs, 0.75g fat
-Egg substitute, 3/4 cup: 90 calories, 18g protein, 3g carbs, 0g fat
-1 whole egg: 70 calories, 6g protein, 1g carbs, 4.5g fat
-2/3 tbsp, natural PB: 67 calories, 3g protein, 2g carbs, 5.33g fat

-broccoli, 3.5 oz: 34 calories, 2.8g protein, 6.6g carbs, 0.8g fat
SUBTOTALS: 311 calories, 37.3g protein, 15.6gcarbs , 11.83g fat

Meal 5
-1 tsp. Olive oil: 40 calories, 0g protein, 0g carbs, 4.67g fat
-1/4 cup Tomato sauce: 15 calories, 0g protein, 4g carbs, 0g fat
-5oz. Broccoli: 50 calories, 4g protein, 9.4g carbs, .5g fat
-1/2 oz. FF cheese: 22.5 calories. 4.5g protein, 1g carb, 0g fat
-1.2oz. Salmon: 50 calories, 6.5g protein, 0g carbs, 2.7g fat
-1 can tuna: 125 calories, 27.5g protein, 1g carbs, 2.5g fat
-SUBTOTALS: 302.5 Calories, 42.5g protein, 15.4g carbs, 10.37g fat

Meal 6
-2 whole egg: 140 calories, 12g protein, 2g carbs, 9g fat
-1/4 can tuna: 31 calories, 6.9g protein, .25g carbs, 0.63g fat
-3oz. Broccoli: 30 calories, 2.4g protein, 5.6g carbs, .3g fat
-Cottage cheese, 1/2 cup: 100calories, 15g protein, 6g carbs, 1.5g fat
SUBTOTALS: 301 calories, 36.3g protein, 13.85 carbs, 9.26g fat

TOTALS: 2149 calories, 234.06 protein, 135.115g carbs, 70.232g fat = 2112.688
44.32% protein 25.77% carbs 29.92% fat

I have a high carb day every 4th day but this is my week off so i’m not having the high carb days. once i start my bulk next week i’ll be having a high carb day every workout day and about 100g of carbs less on off/cardio days.

(by the way if this is going to switch from the V-Diet discussion to just helping me out with training/nutrition a mod should probably move it to the training log section or wherever the correct section would be)

I’m glad to see that you know how much you’re eating - a great first step!

I have very, very little experience trying to put on mass so I won’t even try to give you advice on the matter. Simply put if you’re gaining weight by what you’re doing then you’re headed in the right direction.

Try to see how you look by the time you get to 180. I think you might be pleasantly surprised by your results at that point come to the conclusion that the $500+ you’d spend on the V-Diet would be better spent on food.

I wish you the best, as it seems like you’re off to a good start!

*These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

Disclaimer: Individual results may vary.