Biotest

Christian Thibaudeau Log 3


#181

8:00 50p 100c 50f
12:00 50p 100c 20f
pre workout 25p 100c
post workout 25p 100c
6:00 50p 50c 30f
9:00 50p 50f

I now periodize my training, starting with muscular conditioning and hypertrophy, tapering into heavy strength over 5-6 weeks. Based on this information do these parameters seem solid? Obviously I will adjust to my needs but is this a good start?

I also may add sprints,running stairs or swimming on off days if that would allow me to eat more calories. Btw I’m 17 years old. Thank You.


#182

Hey CT,

Quick question regarding your current training. Since you are using a Westside style training, could you give a “base template” how would a “Westside based CT modified template for a raw lifter” would look like in general? Or what would you modify on the original template for a raw lifter?

Thanks in advance! :slight_smile:


#183

Hello CT,
I would have a short deadlift technique question regarding “my elbow position”. Basically I want to know wheater its good or not to rotate your elbows " inward" (like in a bench press when you tuck your elbows) or have them more “outward”.
When I rotate them inward my upper back is more tight and when I leave them " normal" = outward I can round my upper back more to shorten the pull distance. Your opinion please?
(My grip and everything else is the same, it’s just the rotation of my arm)


#184

[quote]MG13 wrote:
Christian, I have a question for you in regards of volume per training session and frequency per week.

First of all the primary goal is to build muscle. The secondary goal is to get strong. But I think both come together anyway.

So when is the volume of a training session to low to provide hypertrophy even the frequency per week is high(er)?
Let`s make an example. The average Bodybuilder Chest Workout looks like this:

Once a week (12 working sets):
Flat Bench 4x8-4
Incline Bench 4x10-6
Dips 4x12-8

Now if I split things in half and do 6 sets twice a week I`m much stronger on the lifts and can progress much faster with the same amount of volume (per week).

But what if I would split it up again and would do it like this:

Monday: Flat Bench 4x8-4
Thursday: Incline Bench 4x10-6
Saturday: Dips 4x12-8

Now my frequency is higher than usual but I only do 4 working sets per workout. Every set is close to failure but keeping 1-2 reps in the tank.

Is a volume of only 4 hard sets enough to stimulate hypertrophy or should I stay with training every muslce 2 times a week?
And when training each muscle 3 times a week is beneficial would be an even higher frequency/less volume again more productive (maybe 2 sets per muscle on 6 days a week)?

Sorry for the longer post, but I didn`t know how to explain it in short letters :slight_smile:

Thank you for helping me out.
[/quote]I’m also interested to see what Christian says about training like this.


#185

[quote]KDC_lifter wrote:
8:00 50p 100c 50f
12:00 50p 100c 20f
pre workout 25p 100c
post workout 25p 100c
6:00 50p 50c 30f
9:00 50p 50f

I now periodize my training, starting with muscular conditioning and hypertrophy, tapering into heavy strength over 5-6 weeks. Based on this information do these parameters seem solid? Obviously I will adjust to my needs but is this a good start?

I also may add sprints,running stairs or swimming on off days if that would allow me to eat more calories. Btw I’m 17 years old. Thank You.[/quote]

Mate your 17, don’t overthink things. Pick one of CT’s programmes, train hard/eat big for 12 weeks or so. Then evaluate your progress, make the adjustments and start next training block,

You will grow into a beast!!!


#186

AUGUST 20TH - UPPER BODY DYNAMIC EFFORT

A. Speed Bench press 185lbs + 1 set of chains per side, 10 x 2 with 30-45 sec of rest

*Felt a lot more explosive than last Thursday. I hadn’t been benching in a while because of my tender shoulder so last week was harder to accelerate. Much more solid this week.

B. Power snatch … again some light work just to keep in touch with the movement. I am putting my Olympic lifts on hold this week until I get comfortable with this style of training and better understand how to integrate the Olympic lifts.

C. Lying DB triceps extension 4 x 10-12

D. V-Bar triceps cable pushdown 4 x 10-12

E. Seated row with parallel handle 4 x 8-10 with 2 seconds hold

F. Shoulder pump superset (10-12 lateral raise + 8-10 front raise + 8-10 single arm front raise,alternating arms)… 4 sets

OH YEAH … I do abs everyday. Today I did standing cable crunches and side bend with pulley

Also, it’s a lot of different exercises but most of the time it’s not done as one session. I have my main workout and then I fit in some extra work between clients to complete my daily volume.


#187

[quote]ebalage wrote:
Hey CT,

Quick question regarding your current training. Since you are using a Westside style training, could you give a “base template” how would a “Westside based CT modified template for a raw lifter” would look like in general? Or what would you modify on the original template for a raw lifter?

Thanks in advance! :)[/quote]

  1. It is NOT a “modified Westside”… be careful, words have power. Last thing I want is for people on the internet to start sharing “Thibaudeau’s version of Westside training”. First of all what makes Westside Westside is not so much the template, it’s the support and coaching that goes on in that gym.

That’s why I said “inspired by Westside”… it’s NOT my version, it’s me using some of their principles for my own training.

  1. I will not give you a template because I don’t have one. I believe that my greatest personal asset as a coach is my ability to regulate a training session as it occurs. I start with a general idea and goal but I construct the actual session as I go along. And you know what? That’s how the Westside and Dave Tate’s guys do it. When I was in Ohio with Dave the max effort lift was decided in advance BUT all that was done afterwards was decided on the spot after reflecting (and taking advice from other lifters) on what was need to work on what felt weaker in the max effort lift.

  2. And even if I could give you a template I would pull my (non-existant) hair our if I saw it referred to as “Thib’s version of Westside for raw lifters”… first because of the first point I made but also because I’m not a powerlifter, I don’t train powerlifters and my goal is not to perform on the actual powerlifts, it’s to get overall strong and muscular. “RAW” refers to competitive powerlifters only in my book… words have power.

NOW… I mentioned inspired by Westside because I decided to use some of their principles. But it doesn’t make it a copy or even similar to Westside.

The things from their philosophy that I used are:

  • 4 main workouts per week. I’m used to having 6 or even 7 big training days per week. I believe that at my age and with the health issues I had recently it’s too much for me. So I have the 4 basic days of Squat/dead dynamic, bench/press dynamic, squat/dead max effort, press max effort.

  • The use of dynamic and max effort methods. I always kinda did this since I was doing the Olympic lifts (which consists of dynamic work) and strength lifts. But I was basically doing both at every session in some regard. I believe that dividing the two into specific workouts might be more effective as far as maximizing the working state of the nervous system.

  • The heavy emphasis on posterior chain work… this is something I should have done by myself a long time ago anyway since I’m really quads dominant. This isn’t actually purely inspired by Westside since it’s the current school of thought in most performance training plans.

  • More use for the repetition method… again this isn’t just from Westside since all bodybuilder train like that. But focusing on pushing up isolation/accessory work for higher reps wasn’t that frequent before Westside… accessory work was often an afterthought. With Westside, getting stronger on all the assistance work is key.

  • The use of restorative extra workouts… this fits with my profile since I like to train every day. I only have 4 main workouts but I ewill do shorter/less demanding sessions on other days to improve recovery from the main sessions and strengthen weak points faster.

  • Rotating exercises … Changing the main lift often is new for me. I’m used to drilling the same exercises over and over to maximize efficiency. So changing my main exercises every 2 weeks and my assistance work even more often is different and refreshing.

  • Tons of abs work… I have naturally good looking abs. For that reason I always assumed that I had a strong midsection and because of that I rarely trained it… and it turns out that it’s not as strong as I thought. The big emphasis on abs and posterior chain is sure to make a drastic change in my performance.

Other than that I am using a bit more volume than typical Westside. I do not use their schedule because it doesn’t fit my weekly work schedule and I’m not focused on powerlifting so I have more leeway in the selection of my main exercises.


#188

[quote]Akidara wrote:
Hello CT,
I would have a short deadlift technique question regarding “my elbow position”. Basically I want to know wheater its good or not to rotate your elbows " inward" (like in a bench press when you tuck your elbows) or have them more “outward”.
When I rotate them inward my upper back is more tight and when I leave them " normal" = outward I can round my upper back more to shorten the pull distance. Your opinion please?
(My grip and everything else is the same, it’s just the rotation of my arm)

[/quote]

I wouldn’t rotate but focus on tensing the lats (when you rotate you likely tense the mid back)… sweeping deadlifts work great for this.


#189

[quote]KDC_lifter wrote:
8:00 50p 100c 50f
12:00 50p 100c 20f
pre workout 25p 100c
post workout 25p 100c
6:00 50p 50c 30f
9:00 50p 50f

I now periodize my training, starting with muscular conditioning and hypertrophy, tapering into heavy strength over 5-6 weeks. Based on this information do these parameters seem solid? Obviously I will adjust to my needs but is this a good start?

I also may add sprints,running stairs or swimming on off days if that would allow me to eat more calories. Btw I’m 17 years old. Thank You.[/quote]

No it doesn’t tell me anything. You still don’t tell me what foods you eat or what is your meal timing… what is your peri-workout nutrition strategy like and you don’t tell me anything about your training either.

Anyway as I was saying I don’t give nutrition advice, it’s not my area of expertise. All I can say is do it for 3 weeks and evaluate how your body responds and adjust from there. But if you don’t have a more precise plan it’s hard to make proper adjustements.


#190

Hey Coach I’m starting to train from now on, in the past I never did a squat deadlifts etc. I want to focus on these exercises, please tell me about squat, should I go to 90 degrees or go lower almost to ground?


#191

[quote]MG13 wrote:
Christian, I have a question for you in regards of volume per training session and frequency per week.

First of all the primary goal is to build muscle. The secondary goal is to get strong. But I think both come together anyway.

So when is the volume of a training session to low to provide hypertrophy even the frequency per week is high(er)?
Let`s make an example. The average Bodybuilder Chest Workout looks like this:

Once a week (12 working sets):
Flat Bench 4x8-4
Incline Bench 4x10-6
Dips 4x12-8

Now if I split things in half and do 6 sets twice a week I`m much stronger on the lifts and can progress much faster with the same amount of volume (per week).

But what if I would split it up again and would do it like this:

Monday: Flat Bench 4x8-4
Thursday: Incline Bench 4x10-6
Saturday: Dips 4x12-8

Now my frequency is higher than usual but I only do 4 working sets per workout. Every set is close to failure but keeping 1-2 reps in the tank.

Is a volume of only 4 hard sets enough to stimulate hypertrophy or should I stay with training every muslce 2 times a week?
And when training each muscle 3 times a week is beneficial would be an even higher frequency/less volume again more productive (maybe 2 sets per muscle on 6 days a week)?

Sorry for the longer post, but I didn`t know how to explain it in short letters :slight_smile:

Thank you for helping me out.
[/quote]

I think that there is a minimal stimulus that needs to be reached to trigger hypertrophy. Meaning that you must achieve a certain stress threshold in a session to stimulate gains during that session.

UNDERSTAND THIS…stimulating gains is NOT about now much volume you do in one week.

Your body DOESN’T get trained for a week then at the end tallies how much work it did over that period and then decide how much adaptation will occur. Adaptation is stimulated daily, at every session. Each session is it’s own event, it’s own stimulus. It does not NOT adapt for 6 days and then on the 7th it decides what to do.

So in that sense, although it looks cool on a piece of paper, doing the exact same volume divided in 1, 2 or 3 weekly sessions will not have a similar effect.

If you don’t do enough work, don’t impose enough of a training stimulus in one session, that session will not trigger maximal adaptation (or might not even trigger adaptation at all). And if that session did not force the body to adapt, the next session is NOT additive… here’s an illustration:

Let’s say that a session requires 10 units to cause a significant adaptation.

Session 1 gives you 7 units
Session 2 gives you 6 units
Session 3 gives you 8 units

None of these sessions provided enough stress to progress.

It Doesn’t work like this: session 1 doesn’t lead to adaptation (only 7 units), after session 2 some adaptation takes place (7+6 = 13 units) and after session 3 even more adaptation occurs (7+6+8 = 21 units). When there is enough rest between sessions, their training stimulus is not additive. If the sessions are so close together that there is a large residual effect on the trained muscle, there can be some addition (for example two daily sessions for the same muscles) but if there are 48+ hours between both then there will be pretty much zero addition… which means that EVERY SESSION MUST BE EFFECTIVE ENOUGH TO STIMULATE GROWTH BY ITSELF.

What is the minimal volume/training stress necessary to stimulate growth? Impossible to say really because it is highly individualized. Some naturally respond to training and thus don’t need a lot of work to stimulate growth. Others are hard responders and need more work to get the same adaptations.

There have been people who made good gains with a HIT style training consisting of 2-4 sets to complete failure per muscle 3 times a week (using a full body program), others who didn’t gain anything from that except during the first 2-3 weeks (which was likely just surcompensation from dropping their training volume).

So my best answer is that in theory dividing the same volume over 3 sessions could work better, could work worse or could not work at all. Disappointing answer I know but it is what it is.

If you want to hit everything with a high frequency the better way of thinking is NOT finding out how much you can breakdown the same volume, but rather finding out what is the minimal workload that gives you solid adaptations and then finding out how often these sessions can be repeated during a week.


#192

CT

You actually seem to have already answered a question I was poring over the last couple of days regarding ab work. You do it every day, do you recommend it every day for all/most/some training programs? For example, I have been doing Oly programs since January, and I didn’t realize until April that “abs every day” was an implied, but unwritten component of them. However I noticed in many of your programs it isn’t prescribed. Is it something that should be “understood” for most programs? Or in some cases should it be deferred to an “off day”?


#193

Hello CT,

How would the fixed-weight progression program you layed out a while back be modified for someone who can only train 4 days a week, as opposed to the optimal 6 days outlined in the article? Thanks in advance.


#194

AUGUST 21ST - MAX EFFORT LOWER BODY

A. Light power snatches workout up to doubles with 215… You might wonder why I only do snatches and not clean & jerks… my left index finger sometimes bother me, like the tendon gets out of the groove and I can’t extend my finger which rules out catching a clean. It comes and goes but this week it’s taking some time to come back to a workable state.

B. Squats with the Safety squat bar… worked up to 465lbs, not bad since it was 15lbs more than last time but it was fairly easy and could have gone for more but today I had a made case of orthostatic hypotension (tension drops which leads to being dizzy/almost blacking out after a heavy set) so I stayed conservative.

C. Deadstart goodmorning with the safety squat bar (starting every rep from the safety pins with the torso parallel to the floor). I added some band resistance too. Did 4 sets of 5 reps.

D.Glute-ham raise 4 x 6-8 with more resistance

E. Low cable pull-through 4 x 12-15 with a 2 seconds hold at peak contraction

F. Abs work


#195

[quote]xpangaeax wrote:
CT

You actually seem to have already answered a question I was poring over the last couple of days regarding ab work. You do it every day, do you recommend it every day for all/most/some training programs? For example, I have been doing Oly programs since January, and I didn’t realize until April that “abs every day” was an implied, but unwritten component of them. However I noticed in many of your programs it isn’t prescribed. Is it something that should be “understood” for most programs? Or in some cases should it be deferred to an “off day”?[/quote]

Normally I leave abs work to the preference of the people using the program, I do not program abs work. I personally neglected training them for a while because they are very good “aesthetically” which led me (erroneously) to believe that they were strong enough.

I am now training them every day, which is something I picked up from Westside barbell, but which is also very common with many athletes, mostly combat athletes.


#196

Thanks for your answer, your other posts where also very insightful!


#197

coach,
I’m not sure if you posted this somewhere on the internet but I read you writing a few times about an article that would explain how some people need a program when others don’t.


#198

I mean I’d be interested to read your insights on this since I began lifting following pre planned programs and thus believed for a long time that I was someone who NEEDS those rep schemes/percentages. Now all I enjoy is warming up, hitting 2 of the 4 movements I practice during my week, working my technique and muscle/mind connection, stretch and done.

Your 20’ muscle builder is a perfect basic template for that but I’m not sure I even follow the sets/reps correctly every time 6 times per week hehe. Anything less basic confuses the crap out of my mind and I don’t think I can try to improve my technique on too many movements at the same time without losing focus.

I guess I got lost when many experienced guys from here told me to simply hit the gym with my own max intensity and volume and that’s what matters. Which is not as precise as a good old written template I guess, but goes much beyond than just following someone else’s ideas in the end. I’ve been more focused (kinda robotic) than ever the last months not thinking about a defined, more complex program. Which seemed impossible before. Tried to go back to 5/3/1 recently and it was a huge displeasure.

So I’m wondering about this “free” approach to the gym for good. Resting for shorter periods, finishing my daily sesh with farmer walks/bodyweight combos, stuff like that. Inspired by some crossfit way of working out, a few heavy lifts with all rep ranges then kill yourself with a WoD


#199

[quote]tontongg wrote:
coach,
I’m not sure if you posted this somewhere on the internet but I read you writing a few times about an article that would explain how some people need a program when others don’t.
[/quote]


#200

AUGUST 22ND - BONUS WORK

Today I did restorative/pump work for the hamstrings and glutes. Then some traps work (because you can never have too much traps) and then abs.

A. Glute-ham raise 4 x 10-12

B. Lying leg curl 4 x 10-12

C. Seated leg curl 3 x 12-15

D. Low pulley pull-through 4 x 12-15

TRAPS SUPERSET
E1. Face pull x 10-12 reps
E2. Low pulley rope shrugs with 2sec hold x 10-12
E3. Rear delts machine x10-12
Did 3 sets

Then abs work

Easy workout, bonus work. I strongly believe in doing lighter isolation work for the muscles I trained heavy the day prior seems to help with recovery as well as muscle growth (I call it double stimulation).