Biotest

BCAA instead of Surge


#1

Thrilled with my V-Diet results having just finished the transition phase. I am using Precision Nutrition program for the next 6 weeks to see how it works as a maintenance program. My goal is to continue losing fat, lose being irritated, and gain strength.

Oddly enough I am an endomorph per the various guides I have read. As such the PN program recommends using just BCAA instead of Surge, due to a likelihood of inefficient handling of carbs.

I have never used BCAA’s before and looking at the label/dosage instructions I am not sure how I would mix it for a workout. Would it be ok to mix it with a scoop of Metabolic Drive?

I also saw somewhere a suggestion of mixing BCAA with iced green tea?

Thanks!


#2

I believe that the Precision Nutrition program was put together well before the introduction of Anaconda and MAG-10, or more precisely that it hasn’t been updated to reflect these. I would look to using MAG-10 rather than a protocol with BCAA’s and Metabolic Drive or any other drink.

The modest amount of carbs MAG-10 will aid you, rather than be a problem of any kind, even if you may have inefficient handling of carbs.

If you do want to mix BCAA’s with things such as green tea, this can be done, though BCAA’s tend to be slow to dissolve and can give the impression of not dissolving.


#3

Plain BCAAs would be inferior to a precisely formulated workout nutrition formula. And gaining muscle and strength without the right carbs around workout time would be an uphill battle. (Tried it myself in my carb-fearing days.)

But from what you’re saying, it seems like your problem is dysfunctional nutrient uptake mechanisms, like you store carbs as body fat more than other people, and you can only seem to stay lean on a lower carb plan. Right? The good news: that’s fixable.

You need to repair your fat cell metabolism. To do that, look into <a href="http://www.t-nation.com/store/products/indigo-3g"target=“new”>Indigo-3G. Repair these underlying issues and you won’t have to band-aid the problem (even with my crazy V-Diet, though I’m glad you had success with it). You can instead fix the problem. And many of our most successful Indigo-3G users have been V-Diet vets. It’s a great transition.

I was in the same boat as you, which is one reason I helped develop the V-Diet. I thought I was stuck as a low-carber forever because I just couldn’t handle much more than a 100 to 150g of carbs per day without gaining fat. I could stay lean that way, but muscle gains and PRs were hard to come by. Indigo-3G allowed me to triple carb intake with no fat gain, though I’m up 16 or 17 lean pounds since I’ve started using Indigo to fix those underlying problems. I was, like you, even worried about using “carby” workout nutrition. Now I eat Finibars as night time snacks.

So although it’s not exactly answering your question, the best thing for you to do is fix those nutrient uptake mechanisms and move on.

As for workout nutrition, <a href="http://www.t-nation.com/store/products/plazma"target=“new”>Plazma is the top choice, especially when Indigo-3G is used to drive it deep into the muscles. And you basically can’t gain fat from the cyclic dextrins in Plazma. It’s a few steps more advanced than Surge.

What do you think? If that’s not in the budget, Bill’s suggestion of <a href="http://www.t-nation.com/store/products/mag-10"target=“new”>MAG-10 is a good one and far better than BCAAs in tea.


#4

Yes, the MAG-10 suggestion was to keep cost fairly close to the original plan. If it’s in the budget to bring them in, and particularly if the intensiveness of training is very high, for the reasons you explain Indigo-3G and Plazma would be exceptionally well-suited.


#5

Thanks for the additional info. I guess the only questionsI have left are what is the current definition of intensive training and is the Indigo and Plazma combo considered a long term solution or does it need to be cycled?

Personally, I am trying to avoid living at the gym. I am not going to train for any competitive events again, ever. I do not compete in any sports currently, although I do dream of racing sailboats again. I am planning to climb a mountain in 18 months.


#6

Intense training just means any type of training where you are pushing your body very hard, to the point of almost breaking down. Big lifts like squats, deadlifts and high pulls, intensity techniques like drop sets etc. Programs by Christian Thibaudeau and John Meadows here on T-Nation are good examples. (And certain types of extreme endurance work is hardcore too, no doubt.)

If someone is casually walking from machine to machine in a gym and doing triceps kickbacks and yoga, he probably doesn’t need Indigo-3G and Plazma. It’s for hardcore trainers who are going to leave blood on the gym floor (figuratively speaking) and want to reap the maximal benefits from their efforts, whether they compete or not.

Indigo-3G does not need to be cycled, but the label outlines a full dosage and maintenance dosage plan. You can view it by clicking on “Label” here: <a href="http://www.t-nation.com/store/products/indigo-3g"target=“new”>Indigo-3G Store Page.

<a href="http://www.t-nation.com/store/products/plazma"target=“new”>Plazma does not need to be cycled.


#7

[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
If someone is casually walking from machine to machine in a gym and doing triceps kickbacks and yoga, he probably doesn’t need Indigo-3G and Plazma.[/quote]

Don’t you think that Indigo would be beneficial for everybody?


#8

<a href="http://www.t-nation.com/store/products/indigo-3g"target=“new”>Indigo-3G would be good for anyone who doesn’t handle carbs well, is overweight, or is at risk of becoming pre-diabetic. There are studies underway now on Indigo-3G’s health benefits, which are many. We know a few Indigo-3G users who have put their parents on it just for the health benefits.

But in our context here, muscle building and maximal performance, we want people to experience everything Indigo-3G has to offer. We want them to use it to drive nutrients into the muscle cells when training. Real, highly concentrated cyanidin 3-glucoside bioengineered with enhanced bioavailability is in short supply – in fact, I’m pretty sure Biotest makes and owns the world’s supply – and we don’t want it to go to waste on people who aren’t going to train hard, then claim not to “feel it.”

We want dedicated trainers and athletes as well as people who really want to improve their health to get first dibs. It’s just not for those who are half-hearted in their efforts.


#9

I would like to add to add to this discussion that I am someone who has handled carbs very poorly in the past and have had elevated blood sugars (pre-diabetic), but between using Indigo (full dose for 9 months) and using Plazma (2 doses) during lifting sessions I have actually had a couple of relatively LOW blood sugars following intense lifting sessions which shocked me. I think the Indigo is fixing things for me and the carbs in Plazma/MAG-10 don’t act like any other carbs.

Moreover, I have been losing a modest amount of scale weight, a lot of inches, while slowly and steadily gaining muscle and strength, which was a nearly impossible combination of outcomes for me before.

Give them a fair try.


#10

Indigo 3G is a life changer for carb sensitive guys. Wish I had it 10 years ago.


#11

Thanks again for the feedback. Sounds like it would be a good fit for me. Now the long 5 day wait until pay day :slight_smile: